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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (May-June) » Archive through May 08, 2006 » Na consainí ailbheolacha sa nGaeilge « Previous Next »

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 100
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 04:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Haigh!


Na húdarachaí a scríobh alt mór faoin nGaeilge sa gciclipéid “Teangachaí an Domhain” (is sa Rúis a foilsíodh an leabhar i gceist) a dúirt tada ar chonsainí ailbheolacha na teangan, agus sa tábla, a cuireadh ar fáil ann, ní raibh siad taspáinte ach a oiread. Thairis sin, tá an chosúlacht air nach bhfuil teangeolaithe na hÉireann iad féin (roinnt acu, ar a laghad, a bhfaca mé a gcuid pápéir) cinnte dena stádas. Mar shompla, is an-aisteach an chaoi a molann Mr. Ó Murchú (sa leabhar An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Chonamara) iad a láimhseáil. Séard a scríobhann sé gur consainí iasachta iad sin, agus sin a bhfuil ann, níl fonn orm plé leo. An bhféadfadh aon duine an pointe seo a shoilíriú, más é a dtoil é?


Le meas, Peter

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Peter
Member
Username: Peter

Post Number: 101
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 08:20 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Chaithfinnse mé féin a rá níos moiche go bhfuil na consainí ailbheolacha pléascacha i gceist agam, orthu atá /t/ agus /d/ ailbheolacha atá le fáil i bhformhór na n-iasachta ó Bhéarla, mar ‘tae’ /te:/, ‘leaid’ /l’æ:d/ agus araile. Ar fóinéimeanna neamhspleácha iad sin nó an bpléitear leo mar le leaganacha na /t d/ (nó /t’ d’/) déadacha? B’fhacas dhom go bhfuil an tsaincheist doiléirithe ar mhodh mar gheall air go n-imríonn Béarla tionchar mór ar chóras fhuaimeanna na Gaeilge agus, mar sin, go ndiúltaítear de na déadaigh ar chor ar bith. Ach níl ann ach mo thuarim féin air seo mar ní fhaca mé míniú de na teangeolaithe.

Le meas, Peter

(Message edited by Peter on April 28, 2006)

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Peter
Member
Username: Peter

Post Number: 111
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 04:15 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Nach bhfuil aon duine in ann an cheist seo a shoiléiriú nó nach bhfuil idéanna ar chor ar bith ag aon duine dubh bán nó rabhach, ey? Róman, tá tú réidh sásta i gcónaí nuair atá díospóreacht eicínt ar ag gclár i dtaobh na teangeolaíocht. Cén fáth a bhfuil tú i do thost anois?


Peter

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Róman
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Username: Róman

Post Number: 212
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 04:31 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Pheadair,

Tá, cinnte, but not in Irish - I am not advanced enough to discuss phonetics in Irish, tá brón orm

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Peter
Member
Username: Peter

Post Number: 114
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 11:06 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm sorry that my questions put in Irish repel you, for I would really appreciate your participation in the discussion. What I was interested in is the alveolar /t d/ (apart from the alveolar variants that occur before /l' n' sh/) that people tend to retain in the loan words from English. I'm curious of their phonological status. What O/ Murchu/ writes to the topic (is consain iasachta iad) doesn't sound very helpful and a tad non-linguistic I'd say. Is it code-switching or what? What he means by that I don't understand. Any ideas?

Peter

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Róman
Member
Username: Róman

Post Number: 217
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What do you mean people "retain alveolar d and t in loan words"?As far as I know young generation uses only alveolar sounds in native Irish words! So you discussion is dated... Unfortunately

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Peter
Member
Username: Peter

Post Number: 116
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 11:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What's the point of marking separately the alveolar /t d/ (with a dot, O/ Siadhail in his textbook, O/ Murchu/(1998)) and the dental /t d/? Actually they sound different (as alveolar and dental, in fact ;)), that's why I came out with the point. They do exist, ha-ha...

Peter

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Róman
Member
Username: Róman

Post Number: 218
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 12:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ó Sé's textook is at least 25 years old. the language is changing, you know...

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Peter
Member
Username: Peter

Post Number: 121
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 11:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

the language is changing, you know...

It’s good you notice that. What can I say to it, ok tune in to the RTE, and listen to how ppl speak.



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