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Tiarnan
Member Username: Tiarnan
Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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Where does Dia dhuit come from? Its not grammatically correct is it? Seems to be used a lot . |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 172 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
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Dia dhuit is a truthful rendition of what people in Munster and Connacht say. So IT IS correct. Dia duit - is used in Donegal. |
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Tiarnan
Member Username: Tiarnan
Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 02:33 pm: |
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GRMA..I dont question the usage of either. Both are Correct I'd imagine.. Does Dia normally lenite in Munster/Connacht in other sentences? GRMA roimh ré. |
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Sayitaintso
Member Username: Sayitaintso
Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:28 pm: |
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I dont know if this is the ansewer your looking for, but Dia Duit means 'God be with you,' and Dia's Muire dhuit means 'Mary too.' Im guessing since Ireland is/was such a religious nation it replaced or i guess always was 'hello.' |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 173 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 02:12 am: |
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A Thiarnain, It is not "Dia" that lenites but any word ending with a vowel lenites "dom", "duit" etc to "dhom", "dhuit"... Le meas |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1304 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:44 pm: |
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quote:It is not "Dia" that lenites but any word ending with a vowel lenites "dom", "duit" etc to "dhom", "dhuit"... That's the rule in Munster, isn't it? In the west, or at least in some parts, these words are permanently lenited. I always say "dia dhuit", but I nearly always write "dia duit". The lenition here carries no grammatical information, and varies with the dialect. Writing the unlenited forms "dom, duit, dó, etc." in all instances allows the reader to pronounce them as he sees fit. I think that's called "litriú teibí", or something like that. |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 177 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 03:16 am: |
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quote:That's the rule in Munster 'Sea, cinnte. quote:In the west, or at least in some parts Go bhfios dom, sa Chonamara iomlán. quote:Writing the unlenited forms "dom, duit, dó ... allows the reader to pronounce them as he sees fit. Ní aontaím leat. I see it as Dún na nGall form imposed on other speakers. By the same token I don't think "ar an doras" allows me to read it as "ar an ndoras", therefore I would rather write straight-away "ar an ndoras". Le meas |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1309 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 09:25 am: |
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Here's a question for those who read a lot of Irish. The system of mutations after prepositions that comes natural to me is the western one (ar an mbóthar, etc.). When I read stuff written in the northern system (ar an bhóthar, etc.), whether it be a news article or a novel, I find myself phasing in and out of three modes, in my mind's ear: a) I automatically supply "ar an mbóthar" in place of the "ar an bhóthar" I see on the page; or b) I internally pronounce what's written, even though it's a bit "foreign"; or c) I achieve some sort of abstract state of mind in which I don't hear anything at all, I just take in the meaning. What is your experience? |
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Robert (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 09:35 am: |
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Experiments in cognitive psychology would suggest that image recognition is the basis of reading -not aural facultes utilsied in language comprehension and produciton. In other words, word ar an leathanach agus as do bhéil ar two very different things... So...based on surmission, I would countenance that you are experincing some sort of interference resulting from knowing that ar an bhóthar and ar an mbóthar are grammatically the same thing, but the form is different. There might e issues with habitual use of one form over the other. Anyway, more research might need to be done one this area to have any measure of certainty. |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 186 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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A Dhonncha, actually I always struggle reading, but when I do - I noticed I go b) and then a). That is I read - then I "don't like it" - and I read it again "correctly". Sometimes I even "correct" the book with pencil to feel comfortable. Btw - I read Munstermen and Connachtmen switched off the radio when people from Dún na nGall were speaking. Sounds a bit surrealistic to me - anyone heard anything about this phenomenon? Le meas |
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 93 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 11:35 am: |
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I personally pronounce all Irish language texts in the dialect I learn, irregardless the fact whether they were created in the Standard or in a dialect. E.g. I'm accostumed to reading Lughaidh's msgs as if they were in CF Irish, and I just substitute all his "cha rabh" with my /N'i: ro/, "domhsa" with /`(γ)umsə/ and the like. I try to get fluent at it. And I recall a person from the South who recorded some texts for an Irish reader published in Russia changing all Caighdeán things to those of his dialect, including "Gaeluinn" instead of "Gaeilge" in the first place, of course. Peter |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 189 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 02:45 am: |
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quote:And I recall a person from the South who recorded some texts for an Irish reader Is this recording available online somewhere? |
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 96 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 03:38 am: |
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I don't think so. That's what was recorded for Ms Mikhailova's reader, the text materials to it are available at irish.ru. I listened to Jurij Andrejchuk's tapes when learning Irish with him. I failed to copy his audio materials then (a helluva lot of them, in fact), and now we are not on friendly terms anymore. Unfortunately. Maybe he'll take the trouble to copy them for you, though. I can send you his e-mail address. |
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