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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (March-April) » Archive through April 27, 2006 » Dia duit « Previous Next »

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Tiarnan
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Username: Tiarnan

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Where does Dia dhuit come from? Its not grammatically correct is it? Seems to be used a lot .

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Róman
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Username: Róman

Post Number: 172
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 12:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dia dhuit is a truthful rendition of what people in Munster and Connacht say. So IT IS correct. Dia duit - is used in Donegal.

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Tiarnan
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Username: Tiarnan

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 02:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

GRMA..I dont question the usage of either. Both are Correct I'd imagine.. Does Dia normally lenite in Munster/Connacht in other sentences? GRMA roimh ré.

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Sayitaintso
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Username: Sayitaintso

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I dont know if this is the ansewer your looking for,
but Dia Duit means 'God be with you,' and Dia's Muire dhuit means 'Mary too.'
Im guessing since Ireland is/was such a religious nation it replaced or i guess always was 'hello.'

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Róman
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Username: Róman

Post Number: 173
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 02:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Thiarnain,

It is not "Dia" that lenites but any word ending with a vowel lenites "dom", "duit" etc to "dhom", "dhuit"...

Le meas

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1304
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

It is not "Dia" that lenites but any word ending with a vowel lenites "dom", "duit" etc to "dhom", "dhuit"...

That's the rule in Munster, isn't it? In the west, or at least in some parts, these words are permanently lenited. I always say "dia dhuit", but I nearly always write "dia duit". The lenition here carries no grammatical information, and varies with the dialect. Writing the unlenited forms "dom, duit, dó, etc." in all instances allows the reader to pronounce them as he sees fit. I think that's called "litriú teibí", or something like that.

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Róman
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Username: Róman

Post Number: 177
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 03:16 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

That's the rule in Munster

'Sea, cinnte.
quote:

In the west, or at least in some parts

Go bhfios dom, sa Chonamara iomlán.
quote:

Writing the unlenited forms "dom, duit, dó ... allows the reader to pronounce them as he sees fit.

Ní aontaím leat. I see it as Dún na nGall form imposed on other speakers. By the same token I don't think "ar an doras" allows me to read it as "ar an ndoras", therefore I would rather write straight-away "ar an ndoras".

Le meas

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1309
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 09:25 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's a question for those who read a lot of Irish. The system of mutations after prepositions that comes natural to me is the western one (ar an mbóthar, etc.). When I read stuff written in the northern system (ar an bhóthar, etc.), whether it be a news article or a novel, I find myself phasing in and out of three modes, in my mind's ear:

a) I automatically supply "ar an mbóthar" in place of the "ar an bhóthar" I see on the page; or

b) I internally pronounce what's written, even though it's a bit "foreign"; or

c) I achieve some sort of abstract state of mind in which I don't hear anything at all, I just take in the meaning.

What is your experience?

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Robert (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 09:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Experiments in cognitive psychology would suggest that image recognition is the basis of reading -not aural facultes utilsied in language comprehension and produciton.

In other words, word ar an leathanach agus as do bhéil ar two very different things...

So...based on surmission, I would countenance that you are experincing some sort of interference resulting from knowing that ar an bhóthar and ar an mbóthar are grammatically the same thing, but the form is different.

There might e issues with habitual use of one form over the other. Anyway, more research might need to be done one this area to have any measure of certainty.

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Róman
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Username: Róman

Post Number: 186
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 10:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Dhonncha,

actually I always struggle reading, but when I do - I noticed I go b) and then a). That is I read - then I "don't like it" - and I read it again "correctly". Sometimes I even "correct" the book with pencil to feel comfortable.

Btw - I read Munstermen and Connachtmen switched off the radio when people from Dún na nGall were speaking. Sounds a bit surrealistic to me - anyone heard anything about this phenomenon?

Le meas

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 93
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 11:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I personally pronounce all Irish language texts in the dialect I learn, irregardless the fact whether they were created in the Standard or in a dialect. E.g. I'm accostumed to reading Lughaidh's msgs as if they were in CF Irish, and I just substitute all his "cha rabh" with my /N'i: ro/, "domhsa" with /`(γ)umsə/ and the like. I try to get fluent at it. And I recall a person from the South who recorded some texts for an Irish reader published in Russia changing all Caighdeán things to those of his dialect, including "Gaeluinn" instead of "Gaeilge" in the first place, of course.

Peter

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Róman
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Username: Róman

Post Number: 189
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 02:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

And I recall a person from the South who recorded some texts for an Irish reader

Is this recording available online somewhere?

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 96
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 03:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I don't think so. That's what was recorded for Ms Mikhailova's reader, the text materials to it are available at irish.ru. I listened to Jurij Andrejchuk's tapes when learning Irish with him. I failed to copy his audio materials then (a helluva lot of them, in fact), and now we are not on friendly terms anymore. Unfortunately. Maybe he'll take the trouble to copy them for you, though. I can send you his e-mail address.



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