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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (March-April) » Archive through April 07, 2006 » The prefix "an" « Previous Next »

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Student of Irish (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 152.163.100.199
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 08:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A question has come up on the Buntús Cainte Yahoo group about the prefix "an" in regards to leniting the following consonant of the next word. What little research I have done gave me the impression that the DNTLS rule applied. That is, if the consonant of the next word following "an" is D,N,T,L, or S then the consonant is not lenited. For example, is it an-deas or an-dheas?

Are the regional/dialect influences?

Le meas,

Student of Irish

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.8
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 08:54 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá an leagan:
'an-deas' ceart agus caighdeánta.

Tá an leagan
'ana-dheas' ceart agus ceadaithe!

I allow and encourage people to use the second form if they are committed to it dialectically. If leniting, one should write the vowel which has allowed it to happen.

For the same reasons of dialect and preferance, I allow and encourage 'sa mbealach', 'den mbord', 'don mbádóir' and others.

As long as the user knows what they are about and IS consistent, pertinent to their own area or dialect, cén dochar?!

Some people ought not to worry too much about what may seem different from where they are in their own learning stage. Variety is the spice ...
For the moment, just make note of what you see. Communicating is the primary aim.

Go n-éirí leat a Student ofI.

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Student of Irish (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 12.26.84.73
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 10:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Sheosamh, a chara,

Thanks for the explanation. As a group, we've just begun Chapter 1 of Buntús Cainte, so I'm sure that beginners will be quite challenged to understand at this point of their studies the nuances between dialects as it relates to the prefix "an." I thoroughly enjoy the many aspects of the different Irish dialects and regional variations, but I would like to know, since Buntús Cainte adheres to Standard Irish, is it correct to indicate from a Standard-Irish view point, that "an" does not lenite words that begin with D, N, T, L or S?

Le meas, Student of Irish

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Larry
Member
Username: Larry

Post Number: 165
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 10:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ó Dónaill's Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla lists the consonants subject to lenition following an- as b, c, f, g, m and p.

D, T, and S are not lenited following an-. As you know, N and L are never lenited.

Le meas,

Larry Ackerman

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Max
Member
Username: Max

Post Number: 463
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 10:56 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

>>As you know, N and L are never lenited.

Of course they are!

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Róman
Member
Username: Róman

Post Number: 96
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:03 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Of course they are!

not in Munster, neither broad ones in Conamara.

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Larry
Member
Username: Larry

Post Number: 166
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Scríobh Max: Of course they are!


Mar shampla...?

Larry Ackerman

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Max
Member
Username: Max

Post Number: 464
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:13 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

When there's difference between lax and tense, tense l/n are lenited into lax l/n.

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Larry
Member
Username: Larry

Post Number: 167
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My apologies...

I should have made it clear that I was referring to the written standard above!

Larry Ackerman

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Max
Member
Username: Max

Post Number: 465
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

True, yet it's a bit like saying that "sing" changes into "sang" but that "read" doesn't change; without specifying that the spelling does not always mirror the pronunciation changes...

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Peter
Member
Username: Peter

Post Number: 70
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 11:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

'den mbord', 'don mbádóir'

A Sheosaimh, ce/n a/it a n-u/sa/idtear na foirmeacha seo?

Le meas, Peter

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Róman
Member
Username: Róman

Post Number: 101
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 12:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Pheadair

Ní mise Seosamh ach tá a fhios agam. Seo iad na foirmeacha de Chorca Dhuibhne.

(Message edited by Róman on April 04, 2006)

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 193.1.100.8
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 12:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is fíor do Róman, is maith leis an Duibhneach an t-urú san a Pheadair.
Áit eile a mbíodh an t-urú san, ba é mo cheantar féin, Íochtar Chonnacht - Sligeach, i gcás roinnt cainteoirí.


Maidir leis an gceann eile, 'sa mbealach', bheinn ag súil leis i 'Learning Irish' Uí Shiadhail, uachtar Chonnacht - Gaillimh - Conamara. (Níl cóip agam féin anseo.)



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