Dia dhaoibh, a chairde!

Tá cúnamh go bhfuil an foclóir Dineen acu uaim! Conas sa bhfoclóir seo atá 2a p.u. caite de briathra neamhrialta:

chualais nó chualaís?
dúrais (dubharais 7rl) nó dúraís?
chonaicis nó chonaicís?
ní rugais nó níor rugais?
d'ithis nó duais?
fuairis nó fuairís?
thánais nó thánaís?

Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainne Chléire agus níl a fhios agam conas atáid na foirmeanna so sa chanúint.

Le meas
Is mise Róman Liotuánach

Nobody can help? :(

Ní maith le héinne obair thur den chineál san a Rómain!

Ar aon chuma (tá 'etc.' aige agus athfhoirmeacha eile idir lúibíní chomh maith):

do-chualais (-aís)
adubhrais (-bhruighis)
do-chonnacais (-aicís)

rugais (as féin, rud a chiallaíonn gurbh ionann leis an fhoirm spleách agus neamhspleách)

duadhais
fuarais (srl.)
thángais (-aís)

Cinn eile:

Bhís
Tugais; agus: Thugais
Chuadhais

A Sheosaimh, a chara

Go raibh míle maith agat. Bhí súil agam go raibh a fhios ag éinne gan féacháint sa bhfoclóir :(

I just tried to understand where this long "í" (if there is one)comes from in irregular verbs. It seems that forms with "í" are majority in Corca Dhuibhne now. Still not sure about Cléire. Unfortunately neither "An Teanga Bheo" nor "Modern Irish" have noticed this phenomenon. I have a theory though, but still need checking.

Le meas

(Message edited by Róman on April 04, 2006)

>>grma ...

Do chéad fáilte.

A Rómain, an bhfuil cóip do "An Teanga Bheo: Oileán Chléire" agat? Gheobhaidh tú ar litriocht.com í. Is dóigh liom go bhfaighidh tú 'n freagar ins an leabhar sin.

Mise a scríobh a' freagar seo thuas, gml !

Sea, is an chóip do "An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Chléire" liom, ach níl ach roinnt foirm des na briathra neamhrialta ansan, tá brón orm.

Tá cúnamh go bhfuil an foclóir Dineen acu uaim! Conas sa bhfoclóir seo atá 2a p.u. caite de briathra neamhrialta:

chualais (tá sé ar leathanach 82 in "An Teanga Bheo")

dúrais (dubharais 7rl) nó dúraís? -> dúrais, dar liom (siocair go n-abartar dúramar, chan dúraíomar)

chonaicis nó chonaicís? -> sílim go dtabharfaí ’n fhoirm dá mbeadh sí neamhrialta, ie. tá sí rialta: caithfidh gur "chonaicis" atá ann.

ní rugais nó níor rugais? -> níor rugais, gan amhras (bheadh "ní rugais" neamhrialta, agus aríst bheirfí ’n fhoirm ar leathanach 82 dá mbeadh sí neamhrialta)

d'ithis nó duais? -> an dá chionn, dar liom

fuairis nó fuairís? -> fuairis gan amhras

thánais nó thánaís? -> thánais (dá mbeadh "thánaís" a bheadh ann, gheobhfá "thánaíomar" agus "thánamar" a deirtear).

A Lughaidh,

I understand your logic - but all you are saying can be reduced to - "irregular verbs are not 2nd conjugation, so they can't have long "í". Unfortunately it does not work this way 'cause they are not first conjugation either. However, what I was able to deduce that there is a tendency to use "í" in such irregular verbs that are disyllabic in 3rd person. Compare these cases:

do bhris sé (monosyllabic) -> do bhrisis
do cheannaigh sé (disyllabic) -> do cheannaís

So when you have words like:
do r(i)ug sé it is only natural to say "do r(i)ugais"
whereas "tháinig sé" suggests "thánaís"

I have seen "dúraís, thánaís, chonaicís, chualaís" in 3 sources - "An Teanga Bheo: Corca Dhuibhne", "TYI" le Dillon, and "An Ghaeilge" le Doyle. Whereas as you noted yourself "An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Chléire" shows "chualais" as the current form. I know there are a lot of very minuscle differences between Corca Dhuibhne vs Múscraí& Oileán Chléire, so this might be one of those but still it doesn't make the mud any clearer. I am not sure that you can use "-ais" all the time in Oileán Chléire, but there is evidence that "-aís" isn't used consistently either. So I am lost ..:(((

Maybe you could have a look at Linguistic Atlas and Survey of the Irish Dialects? Sure you'd some answers there. But the best way, I think, would be going to Cleare Island and ask to people! :-)

Viso gero!

Tá an cheist bheag agam arís. In the Dillon's book "sa" is said always to lenite. But in the section on eclipses he gives such an example: "insan bpáirc". I know there is eclipsis in Conamara, but in Munster (bar Port Láirge)??? Any ideas? And are there any rough rules when "ins an" is preferrable to "sa"?

Le meas

Agus pé scéal é, conas a deirtear "iógart"? [jo:gart] nó [o:gart]?

Go raibh maith agat, in advance

Trick question! Despite "Iúil" /u:l'/ and similar words, it's normally /jo:gart/. The English pronunciation of borrowed words frequently over-rides the Irish spelling. I've often heard people speaking Irish say, for example:

"traidisiúnta" as "tradition-ta"
"rós" as /ro:z/

quote:

rós" as /ro:z/

Tugadh an focal so sa "Irish of West Muskerry" mar an focal amháin cá bfhuil fuaim /z/! Agus deirtear "róis" le fuaim /3/ (mar Béarla "zh")!!!

An an drochuair, níl mórán eolais agam mar gheall ar an gcanúint sin, canúint Chléire.

A Eonais,

Ach conas deirtear "iógart" sa Chorca Dhuibhne, más é do thoil???

Go raibh maith agat in advance

Hm.. N'fheadar, ní chuala riamh é nuair a bhíos sa cheantar. Mar a dúirt Dennis "The English pronunciation of borrowed words frequently over-rides the Irish spelling."

Ná hithid siad an t-iógart sa Chorca Dhuibhne in aon chor? ;(