I'm trying to understand certain constructions from a syntactic viewpoint. Tell me if I'm wrong somewhere...

We can differenciate between sentences like:
- "tá mé sásta pósadh" where the VN is a complement, and
- "tá mé ag ithe" where the VN is part of the verbal head.

If the VN has an object:
- in the first case, we have "O+a+VN": "tá mé sásta an fear sin a phósadh"
- in the second case, we have "VN+O(gen.)": "tá mé ag pósadh an fhir sin"

You can say neither *"tá mé sásta pósadh an fhir sin" nor *"tá mé an fear sin a phósadh"

When fronting:
- "Is mise atá ag pósadh an fhir sin" (Not *"Is mise atá an fear sin a phósadh")
- "Is é an fear sin atá mé a phósadh" (Not *"Is é an fear sin atá mé ag pósadh")

"ag" vs "le":
- "tá mé ag léamh" > "tá mé ag léamh leabhair"
- "tá mé le léamh" > "tá mé le leabhar a léamh"
Couldn't you have "tá mé le léamh leabhair"?

quote:

- "tá mé le léamh" > "tá mé le leabhar a léamh"

Is é an t-adhmad a bhainimse as "tá mé le léamh" ná "I am to be read", nó "I may be read", .i. is cosúil le leabhar mé, agus is fútsa mé a léamh... nó rud éigin meafarach mar sin.

Maidir le "tá mé le leabhar a léamh", is féidir é sin a thuiscint mar "I am expected to read a book", nó "tá mé ar tí leabhar a léamh (?)", ach ní deirtear rudaí mar sin de ghnáth. Is féidir "tá leabhar le léamh agam" (I have a book to read, I have a book that I need to read) a rá.

quote:

Couldn't you have "tá mé le léamh leabhair"?

An-aisteach.

tá sé le theacht amáireach (he is to come tomorrow)
bhí sé le leabhar a léamh (he was to read a book)
bhí siad lena fáil / le í a fháil (they were to get her)
(Modern Irish)

>>An-aisteach.

I'd rather you added "yes" or "no" after that...

quote:

I'd rather you added "yes" or "no" after that...

Ní déarfainn féin "tá mé le léamh leabhair". An leor sin? Níl mé sásta níos mó a rá. Ní arbiter mór na Gaeilge mé!

If I understand correctly what you are saying:

In the case of "le+VN" construction:

- with intransitive VN, the subject of the clause is the "semantic subject" (SS) of the VN ("tá sé le theacht amáireach" > "sé"= SS of "teacht" - he is to come)
- with transitive verbs where the object is expressed, the subject of the clause is the SS of the VN ("tá sé le leabhar a léamh" > "sé"= SS of "léamh" - he is to read)
- with transitive verbs where the object is not expressed, the subject of the clause is the semantic object (SO) of the VN ("tá sé le léamh" > "sé"= SO of "léamh" - he/it is to be read)

Right?

>>An leor sin?

mouais...

quote:

Right?

Ní thuigim na téarmaí SS agus SO ró-mhaith, ach tá mé sásta leis an gcuid eile de.

Can you use this construction to say "I have to read"?
"tá le léamh agam."?

quote:

"tá le léamh agam."?

Ní dóigh liom é. Tá "X" in easnamh: "Tá X le léamh agam." Déarfainn "Tá orm léamh", áfach.

>>Ní thuigim na téarmaí SS agus SO ró-mhaith

"I want to go"

Syntactically speaking, "go" in this sentence has no subject, "I" is only the syntactic subject of "want". But there is a clear semantic connection between "I" and "go": "I am the one who goes".
Since the terms "subject" and "object" refer to syntactic connections, I use the attribute "semantic" to express this distinction.

>>Déarfainn "Tá orm léamh"

And if I intend to: "Tá fúm léamh"
?

quote:

And if I intend to: "Tá fúm léamh" ?

Yes.

Direct vs indirect object:

- "tá mé ag léamh leabhair."
- "tá mé ag éisteacht le ceol."

Fronting:
- "Is leabhar atá mé a léamh."
- "Is le ceol atá mé ag éisteacht."

What with "le+VN"?

"tá mé le héisteacht le ceol." ?

Ní fheicim aon réiteach sa chás seo ach "Is le ceol atá mé le héisteacht".

>>Ní fheicim aon réiteach sa chás seo ach "Is le ceol atá mé le héisteacht".

I find this strange: a "cleft structure" supposes that the fronted syntagm has its place within the corresponding "unmarked structure"
("Is le ceol atá mé ag éisteacht" < "Tá mé ag éisteacht le ceol")

How come "Is le ceol atá mé le héisteacht" would have no corresponding "unmarked structure"?


----------------------------

tá sé thar éis/i ndiaidh imeacht (he has gone off)
tá mé thar éis/i ndiaidh leabhar a léamh (I have read a book)

táimse chun dul a’ triall oraibh arís (I am intending to go to see you again)
peocu bhí an guth chun labhairt nú ná raibh (whether the voice was going (to speak) or not)
cé tá chun an dorais a oscailt? (who is to open the door?)

(Modern Irish)

- tá sé thar éis/i ndiaidh léamh.
Would that mean "he has read" or "he/it has been read"?

- tá sé chun léamh.
Would that mean "he intends to read" or "he/it is to be read"?

(Message edited by Max on March 22, 2006)

Autre chose :

"tromú" is a verbal noun (making heavier)
"tromaíocht" is a noun (condemnation)

Yet you can have:
"tá sé dhá tromú" (he is making her heavier)
"tá sé dhá tromaíocht" (he is criticizing her)

With the verbal noun you have:
"tá sé ag tromú na mná móire"
but
"tá sé ag tromú bean mhór"

Now what with the noun:
"tá sé ag tromaíocht na mná móire"
and
"tá sé ag tromaíocht mná móire" or "tá sé ag tromaíocht bean mhór" ?

quote:

I find this strange: a "cleft structure" supposes that the fronted syntagm has its place within the corresponding "unmarked structure"

Ní thuigim! Ná buail ar na hailt arís mé! Aaghh!!

Maidir le "tá mé le héisteacht le ceol", bheinn sásta a rá go luíonn is le héisteacht le ceol atá mé taobh istigh de cheart na Gaeilge -- ar éigean -- bíodh is go bhfuil sé ciotach agus gránna.

An mbíonn chuile theangeolaí mar thusa, Max, de shíor ag tabhairt ar dhaoine rudaí aisteacha a rá?

quote:

"tá sé dhá tromaíocht" (he is criticizing her)

Ag tromaíocht uirthi a déarfainn.

quote:

Ag tromaíocht uirthi a déarfainn.

And consequently:
- "tá sé ag tromaíocht ar an mnaoi mhóir"
- "tá sé ag tromaíocht ar mhnaoi mhóir"
Right?

quote:

bíodh is go bhfuil sé ciotach agus gránna.

Ouch!

quote:

An mbíonn chuile theangeolaí mar thusa, Max, de shíor ag tabhairt ar dhaoine rudaí aisteacha a rá?

de shíor?? That I didn't realize...
It must be that since I am focusing on syntax, I pay less attention to the global meaning. (Sorry)

quote:

Ní thuigim!

What is it you don't get?

quote:

"tá sé ag tromaíocht ar an mnaoi mhóir"
"tá sé ag tromaíocht ar mhnaoi mhóir"

"ar an mbean mhór" agus "ar bhean mhór" a déarfainn agus a scríobhfainn. Níl na habairtí a scríobh tusa mícheart, ach ní úsáidtear an tuiseal tabharthach go minic anois taobh amuigh de Chúige Mumhan, agus is dóigh liom go bhfuil sé ag dul i léig ansin chomh maith -- sna haidiachtaí ar aon nós. Níl mé céad faoin gcéad cinnte faoi staid an tabharthaigh sna bólaí úd, áfach, agus níor mhaith liom colg a chur ar dhaoine de na Munsterites!