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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (March-April) » Archive through March 14, 2006 » A little more on the Verbal Noun « Previous Next »

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Crístíona
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Username: Crístíona

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A chairde,

Cé acu ceann is ceart?:

(A) Tá áthas orm cloisteáil go ndeachaigh sí go dtí an siopa.

(B) Tá áthas orm go ndeachaigh sí go dtí an síopa a chloisteáil.

Christine.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1064
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 11:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The first one.

Don't put the verbal noun at the end of the sentence if it's too far away.

Always put it before "gur", "nár", "go", "nach"...

Bhí athás aimsiú nár maríodh é.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
Correct me for the love of God... I'm a perfectionist! : )

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Maidhc_Ó_g
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Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 160
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 01:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Shouldn't you use the particle 'a' before the verbal noun there too, e.g. a chloisteáil, because it's followed by a clause which is syntactically a complete sentence on its own - ...."(go n)deachaigh sí go dtí an siopa"?

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Celtoid
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Username: Celtoid

Post Number: 92
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 03:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I don't think so, unless you're speaking a Connamara dialect, in which case you'd use the "a" before "dul", "teacht", or "bheith".

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Maidhc_Ó_g
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Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 161
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 04:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I saw that in Ch.14 of Learning Irish. However, later, in Ch.22 "3.Use of A+Lenition Before Certain Verbal Nouns.

Bhí Cáit ag iarraidh {a fháil amach to find out}
Cáit was trying {a dhéanamh amach to make out}
{a shamhlú to imagine}
{a fhiafraí to ask}
{a thiscint to understand}

cé a bhí ann aréir.
who was there last night.

The particle 'a', which causes lenition, is used before verbs when they are followed by a sentence, or subordinate clause, which is syntactically complete in itself, e.g. cé a bhí ann aréir? Who was there last night?; go bhfuil Bríd tinn 'that Bríd is sick."

(Message edited by Maidhc_Ó_G. on March 09, 2006)

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1276
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I don't think so, unless you're speaking a Connamara dialect, in which case you'd use the "a" before "dul", "teacht", or "bheith".

This rule exists in Ulster as well: a ghabháil, a theacht, a bheith.

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 08:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Maidhc,

You're absolutely right. It must be something like:

Tá áthas orm a chloisteáil go ndeachaigh sí go dtí an siopa.

For it to be syntactically equivalent to:

Tá áthas orm é a chloisteáil.



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