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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (January-February) » Archive through February 24, 2006 » In need of some pronunciation help « Previous Next »

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Vincent767 (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 68.195.105.145
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 09:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hello everyone. I am in need of some help with the correct pronunciation of the following words:

ailleacht (sometimes seen as ailleachd)
Gradh
Annsachd

I have gone to sites that help with pronunciation, but it isn't helping all that much (especially with the first and third words). As far as I can tell, 'Gradh' is pronounced 'Gra-v' .... but I could be way off, and have no idea if so. Each word will be preceded by 'Mo' (which I believe is the gaelic word for 'My' and is pronounced like the first two letters in 'Mass').

So, if one of you do speak Gaelic, could you please provide a phonetic translation?

Much thanks,

Vincent

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Croga75
Member
Username: Croga75

Post Number: 60
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 04:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I may be wrong but those look scottish. I have no idea how the scots pronounce them. But there are some very knowledgable people on this site, some one might be able to help you.

Ní Bheidh Mo Leithéid Arís Ann!

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Marioberti
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Username: Marioberti

Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 07:49 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

final gaelic -dh is not mute like in irish, but sounds like greek ghamma (saGHapò = I love you) which is the voiced variant of -ch in scottish LOCH, german ACH (but), hebrew ACH (brother), russian CHudòZHnik (painter) etc.. A similar voiced sound [GH] is found in several languages / dialects, like in northern german /vowel/+GH+/vowel/: sagen [saagn] → SAAGHN (to say).
cfr. ir. achadh [acha] → gael. achadh [achaGH]. If I had special symbols here my transcriptions would be more correct.
so: gradh = [graaGH]
final -cht [CHt] is irish, while its gaelic equivalent is -chd [CHk], where dental [t] → guttural [k]. the origin of this apparently strange articulation goes back to some ancient phonetical attitude (the scots were phonetically influenced by the norse). same story as for annsachd [aunsaCHk]; note the diphthong [au] due to double n in gael. this CHT=CHD curiosly reminds me of old belafonte's caribbean song at carnegie hall where he invited them to "sing a likka louder" (most of you weren't born yet)

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 64.12.116.14
Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:41 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

With "mo" they should be:

M'ailleachd (grave accent over first a)

Mo ghradh (with h after the g and grave accent over the a)

M'annsachd

For more clarification, the "gh" and "dh" sounds are similar to the "g" in the spanish word "agua." I think of it as a soft, throaty g.
A description copied from a previous thread: " GH = g-sound, leaving the breath going out (Modern Greek gamma, Spanish g in "pagar", a bit like French r) "

so approximately pronounced:

Mo GHraGH (with the "a" pronounced "ah")

Moun-saCHt
("ou" as in a combination of the "ah" as in father and "oo" in choose, so similar to the "ou" in "ouch." The "a" is pronounced "ah" as in father and the CH as in Scottish "Loch" German "Bach," etc.)

I'm not totally sure with M'ailleachd (keep in mind I'm just a learner):
MalaCHt (same pron. key as before).

If this is for something important please wait for confirmation and corrections to what I've said, or look somewhere else. Remember this forum is for Irish Gaelic (which today is just called Irish) not Scottish Gaelic. There are several fluent Irish speakers here, but I'm not sure how many also speak Scots Gaelic. The bbc.co.uk website has some resouces for Scots Gaelic learners by the way, including lessons with audio. There are lots of other websites too, just search for Gaidhlig lessons, audio, etc.

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Vincent767 (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 68.195.105.145
Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My sincere thanks to all of you for your help so far.

I apologize for not knowing the difference, but I thought I was using Irish gaelic terms, and not Scottish Gaelic. I have been using some online gaelic dictionaries to discover some words. Is there an Irish english-to-gaelic online dictionary you would recommend?

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Croga75
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Username: Croga75

Post Number: 61
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 10:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post


Ní Bheidh Mo Leithéid Arís Ann!

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Vincent767 (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 68.195.105.145
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 03:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks again, Croga.

What about the following words:

álainn
aingeal
aon (I think this is pronounced 'Een')
Cumhra

I am interested in certain certain combinations, as well. Such as:

Mo aingeal
álainn aon
Mo álainn aon

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1253
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In the IPA:

àilleachd [ˈaːλɔχk] (aal-yoCHk)
Gràdh [gɾaːɣ] (graaGh)
Annsachd [ˈawnsɔχk] (own-soCHk)


álainn [ˈæːlˠɪɲ] (aah-lin-y - n-y is like the n in "new")
aingeal [ˈĩːəlˠ] (ee-ull, the ee- is nasalised)
aon [eːnˠ] (ayn, without any y-glide)

Cumhra [ˈkũːɾə] (koo-ruh, with nasalised oo)

I am interested in certain certain combinations, as well. Such as:

Mo aingeal
álainn aon
Mo álainn aon


Your combinations aren't right according to Irish grammar.

My angel = m'aingeal [mʷĩːəlˠ] (mwee-ull with nasalised ee)
beautiful one (speaking about a woman) = áille [ˈæːλɪ] (aah-lyih)
my beautiful one = m'áille [ˈmʷæːλɪ] (mwaah-lyih), mo bhean álainn [mo ˈβ´anˠ ˈæːlˠɪɲ] (moh vann aah-lin-y)

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Vincent767 (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 68.195.105.145
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:53 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thank you very much for taking the time to help, Lughaidh. I do have a couple of questions in regard to your reply, however.


"aah-lin-y - n-y is like the n in 'new'"

Are you saying that the 'y' is basicaly silent?


"aah-lyih"

I am afraid I am having trouble pronouncing 'lyih'; it doesn't seem to have much a phonetic structure. The best I am able to do is 'lee', but I am sure that is not correct. Can you provide more of a phonetic example?

Thanks again.

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Croga75
Member
Username: Croga75

Post Number: 62
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 12:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

maybe try it more with the n from o"n"ion or the spanish n with the ~ over it. At least thats what I've been told. If I'm wrong then I appologize.

Ní Bheidh Mo Leithéid Arís Ann!

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1255
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 08:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

>"aah-lin-y - n-y is like the n in 'new'"

>Are you saying that the 'y' is basicaly silent?

No, I mean it's an n followed by a y-glide, as in new ("nyoo"). But in English, I'm afraid you can't have that sound at the end of a word, so I didn't know how to write it! In Irish, all slender nn's are pronounced that way.


>"aah-lyih"

>I am afraid I am having trouble pronouncing 'lyih'; it >doesn't seem to have much a phonetic structure. The >best I am able to do is 'lee', but I am sure that is >not correct. Can you provide more of a phonetic example?


Ok, well, the ly- sound i wanted to write there basically was the sound you hear in "million", an l with a kind of y-glide. It is just the sound of Spanish LL. And after, in the word "áille", you have the sound of "i" in words like "hit".

maybe try it more with the n from o"n"ion or the spanish n with the ~ over it. At least thats what I've been told. If I'm wrong then I appologize.

Yeah, spanish ñ is exactly the same sound, it is French and Italian gn, Portuguese nh, etc. That is the sound of all slender nn's (at least in Donegal and Connaught Irish).

Tír Chonaill abú!



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