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Max
Member Username: Max
Post Number: 349 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 12:46 pm: |
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I'm doing a little research on spatial prepositions. 1/ Could the fluent speakers revise the following sentences: -Téann siad cois farraige. -Tá siad cois farraige. -Scríobhann sé rud éigin ar an gclár dubh. -Tá sé ag goil a chónaí in árasán nua. -Tá sé ag goil isteach san árasán. -Fanann sé san árasán céanna. -Tá Trèves (suite) ar an Moselle. -Tá sé ag siúl ar an mbúlbhard. -Tá sé ag siúl ar an tsráid. -Tá sé ina chónaí ar an Île de Ré. -Tá sé ag dul suas an cnoc. -Tá sé ag dul suas sa gcrann. -Tá sé ina chónaí faoin tuath. -Tá sé ina chónaí sa chathair. -Tá sé ag suí síos ar chathaoir uilleach. -Tá sé ag luí síos ar an fhéar. -Tá sé ag goil go dtí an chathair. -Tá sé ag goil chun/chuig/go dtí a sheomra. -Ta sé ag goil isteach ina sheomra. -Tá sé ag goil isteach sa teach s’aige. -Tá sé ag goil faoin tuath -Tá sé ina chónaí i mBerlin. -Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht i gcoill. -Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht sa choill. -Tá sé ag teacht chugam / ag teacht tigh s’agamsa -Tá sé ag goil tigh a dhearthár. -Tá sé ag stopadh tigh a charad. -Tá an vása ar an mbord. -Tá sé ag siúl ar an fhéar. -Tá sé ag teacht ón bhaile. -Tá sé ag teacht amach as an teach. 2/ Could you give me some examples using the prepositions "de", "chun" and "ó"? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2978 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 05:12 pm: |
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"goil" is a dialect form. I'd have "dul" there. But I see no problems. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2980 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 05:42 pm: |
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Táim ag dul ar turas chun na Róimhe. Tháinig sé anuas den sliabh Tháinig sé ón nGaillimh aréir. Synthesis is not my strong point, I hope those are some help. You ought to get Tobar na Gaedhilge for this http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/tobar/ |
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Max
Member Username: Max
Post Number: 351 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 06:29 pm: |
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I can't install Tobar na Gaedhilge... I work on Mac. (Or can I?) |
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Max
Member Username: Max
Post Number: 352 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 06:58 pm: |
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Could you say: "Tháinig sé anuas ón sliabh." ? If yes, what is the difference with "den sliabh"? |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1035 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 07:55 pm: |
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quote:I can't install Tobar na Gaedhilge... I work on Mac. (Or can I?) Tá Mac agam freisin, agus ní raibh mé riamh in ann úsáid a bhaint as Tobar na Gaedhilge. *osna* :-\ Maidir leis an difríocht idir "ó" agus "de" (nó an difríocht idir "ó" agus "as"), go bhfóire Dia orainn! Tá cuid mhaith overlap ann. Cad é an difríocht idir "down from the mountain" agus "down off the mountain"? Ognuno sta solo sul cuor della terra trafitto da un raggio di sole: ed è subito sera. -- Salvatore Quasimodo
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Cionaodh
Member Username: Cionaodh
Post Number: 155 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 08:21 pm: |
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Scríobh Max: I can't install Tobar na Gaedhilge... I work on Mac. (Or can I?) It'll work on a Mac via Virtual PC (I have VPC for both OS9 and OSX). But unless you have some other reason to run Micro$oft Windoze, it probably wouldn't be worth the investment. http://www.gaeilge.org FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
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Max
Member Username: Max
Post Number: 353 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 08:38 pm: |
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>>Cad é an difríocht idir "down from the mountain" agus "down off the mountain"? Here is how I "feel" it: "from" > I was "there" ("from" indicates the spatial origin) ("from Paris") "off" > I was "at/on" it ("off" indicates the spatial origin plus the fact that there was a contact between me and the spatial origin) ("off the tree") Thanx for the advice Cionaodh |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1038 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 09:12 pm: |
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quote:("off" indicates the spatial origin plus the fact that there was a contact between me and the spatial origin) Tá go maith. Is dóigh liom gur féidir "anuas de" a rá nuair a bhíonn rud éigin suite -- nó duine ina shuí nó ina sheasamh -- ar rud éigin ard: Thug mé an leabhar anuas den tseilf. Seo datum beag eile duit. Is cuimhin leat, is dócha, go ndeir an Bíobla go raibh Maois ag caint le Dia ar Shliabh Shíonái. Agus tháinig sé anuas faoi dheireadh. Seo agat an abairt atá sa Bhíobla Gaeilge: D'fhill Maois agus tháinig anuas ón sliabh agus dhá leac na Fianaise ina lámha... Eax. 32:15 Ognuno sta solo sul cuor della terra trafitto da un raggio di sole: ed è subito sera. -- Salvatore Quasimodo
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1039 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 09:16 pm: |
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quote:It'll work on a Mac via Virtual PC An bhfuil Tobar na G suiteáilte agat, a Chionnaoidh? An féidir leat focail agus abairtí a chuardach ann? Ognuno sta solo sul cuor della terra trafitto da un raggio di sole: ed è subito sera. -- Salvatore Quasimodo
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Max
Member Username: Max
Post Number: 354 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 07:18 am: |
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So far, "ó" and "de" have been used with dynamic verbs (aka: verbs of motion):"tar" and "tabhair". Could they be used with static verbs too? (like: bheith ina shuí, bheith ina sheasamh, bheith ina luí, ...) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2982 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 08:49 am: |
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I think they are always dynamic. |
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Cionaodh
Member Username: Cionaodh
Post Number: 158 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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Scríobh Dennis: An bhfuil Tobar na G suiteáilte agat, a Chionnaoidh? An féidir leat focail agus abairtí a chuardach ann? I had one of the "tobar" programs working a few years ago with VPC and Windoze 98 (I seem to recall I had to do something in DOS, though); I haven't tried it yet with VPC7 and XP; I'll try it later today and let you know how I fare. Le meas, Cionaodh http://www.gaeilge.org FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 08:44 am: |
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>>>-Tá sé ag goil a chónaí in árasán nua. Tá sé ag goil a bheith ina chónaí ... is dóigh liom é sin a bheith níos ceirte. >>>-Tá sé ina chónaí ar an Île de Ré. Seans go bhfuil tú i riocht scríobh mar sin, ach chuala mé “san oileán” agus fuair mé sin: “Tá Tír an Fhia suite in oileán Ghorumna” >>>-Tá sé ag dul suas sa gcrann. An bhfuil sé ag goil suas agus é sa gcrann?? >>>-Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht i gcoill. >>>-Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht sa choill. Deirtear “chuaigh sé IN áit eicínt”, ach “chuaigh sé AG an áit seo” i gCois Fhairrge de réir “Learning Irish” le Ó Siadhail. >>>-Tá sé ag teacht chugam / ag teacht tigh s’agamsa >>>-Tá sé ag goil isteach sa teach s’aige. Níl ann ach na cumaisc de ‘seo againne, seo agaibhse’ /s’æ:N’@/, /s’ægi:s’@/ i gCF. seo aige /s’o eg’@/ seo agamsa /s’o a:ms@/ Ní cainteoir líofa ar bith atá ionam. Le meas, Peter |
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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>>>-Tá sé ag goil a chónaí in árasán nua. >>>Tá sé ag goil a bheith ina chónaí ... is dóigh liom é sin a bheith níos ceirte. Ceartaím mé féin: "tugtar faoi deara nach féidir 'bheith, goil, tíocht' a úsáid ar lorg 'ag goil'. I gcás mar sin ní mór an aimsir fháistineach a úsáid: We are going to be late - beidh muid mall" (Ó Murchú, An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Chonamara). Beidh sé ina chónaí in árasán nua. >>>-Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht i gcoill. Is féidir é a thuiscint mar "tá sé ag spaisteoireacht sa treo coill", seans. Le meas, Peter |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 1246 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 04:19 pm: |
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>>>-Tá sé ag dul suas sa gcrann. >>An bhfuil sé ag goil suas agus é sa gcrann?? Cad é mar a deirfeá ar nós eile é? >>>-Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht i gcoill. >>>-Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht sa choill. Deirtear “chuaigh sé IN áit eicínt”, ach “chuaigh sé AG an áit seo” i gCois Fhairrge de réir “Learning Irish” le Ó Siadhail. Ní hionann sin is a ráidht go bhfuil na habairtí thuas mícheart. I gConamara, fuaimníthear "chuig" mar "ag", sin a’ fáth a bhfuil "chuaigh sé ag an áit sin" i gConamara. >>>-Tá sé ag goil a chónaí in árasán nua. >>>Tá sé ag goil a bheith ina chónaí ... is dóigh liom é sin a bheith níos ceirte. Is féidir "tá sé ag goil a chónaí" a ráidht chomh maith. D’fhoghlaim mé ó chainteoirí dúchais í. Beidh sé ina chónaí in árasán nua. Ciallaíonn seo "he will live in a new flat". Ní hé sin a bhí i gceist ag Max... >>>-Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht i gcoill. Is féidir é a thuiscint mar "tá sé ag spaisteoireacht sa treo coill", seans. Ní féidir "sa treo coill" a ráidht. I dtreo choill = towards a wood. Is féidir bheith ag spaisteoireacht sa choillidh féin chomh maith. Le meas, Tír Chonaill abú!
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:42 pm: |
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>>>-Tá sé ag dul suas sa gcrann. >>>Cad é mar a deirfeá ar nós eile é? Tá cuma aisteach air, dar liom. ‘Tá sé ag dreapadh an chroinn.’ >>>-Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht i gcoill. >>>-Tá sé ag spaisteoireacht sa choill. Deirtear “chuaigh sé IN áit eicínt”, ach “chuaigh sé AG an áit seo” i gCois Fhairrge de réir “Learning Irish” le Ó Siadhail. >>>Ní hionann sin is a ráidht go bhfuil na habairtí thuas mícheart. I gConamara, fuaimníthear "chuig" mar "ag", sin a’ fáth a bhfuil "chuaigh sé ag an áit sin" i gConamara. Ni ‘eirim gur meancóig atá iontu. Thug mé faoi deara go mba é ‘ag spaisteoireacht go coill’ an dara brí de réir Ó Siadhail in ‘spaisteoirecht i gcoill’. >>>Ní féidir "sa treo coill" a ráidht. >>>I dtreo choill = towards a wood. An úsáideann tú ‘i dtreo’ mar réamhfhocal? B’fhéidir gur fíor é. Ach: “sa treo sin, i dtreo na spéire, i ngach aon treo” (Oxford Irish Dictionary) Is dóigh gur mar ainmfhocal atáthar á úsáid. “in the direction of a wood” = sa treo coille. Bainim leas as “sa treo coill” i gcioll air nach n-úsáidtear an ginideach le ainm éiginnte i gConamara ach go han-annamh. Le meas, Peter |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2999 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 03:33 pm: |
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Ní fhaca mé riamh "sa treo" ach le sin/seo 7 rl. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 1249 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 05:42 pm: |
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>>>-Tá sé ag dul suas sa gcrann. >>>Cad é mar a deirfeá ar nós eile é? Tá cuma aisteach air, dar liom. ‘Tá sé ag dreapadh an chroinn.’ Amharc ar fhoclóir De Bhaldraithe, fá "climb"... Is dóigh gur mar ainmfhocal atáthar á úsáid. “in the direction of a wood” = sa treo coille. Bainim leas as “sa treo coill” i gcioll air nach n-úsáidtear an ginideach le ainm éiginnte i gConamara ach go han-annamh. Chiallóchadh "sa treo coille" = in the wood-direction (your direction would be made of a forest there... which doesn't mean anything). In the direction of a wood would be "i dtreo choille": féach teach Sheáin, i dteach Sheáin, teach cara, teach an chara, i dteach an chara, ach ní abartar "sa teach cara". In the house of a friend is "i dteach cara", because "teach" is definite by "cara". Aontaim le hAonghus, chan fhaca mé "sa treo" ach ins na cora cainte "sa treo seo / sa treo sin". Tír Chonaill abú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 3003 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 09:03 am: |
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quote:Chiallóchadh "sa treo coille" = in the wood-direction (your direction would be made of a forest there... which doesn't mean anything) Or of wood, ditto! (cf maide coille) quote:Aontaim le hAonghus An rud is annamh... |
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Dalta
Member Username: Dalta
Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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"In the direction of a wood would be "i dtreo choille": " Cén fáth an séimhiú? Nach é 'i dtreo coille'? |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 1252 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 05:00 pm: |
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Mmm, yeah, maybe it isn't necessary to have a séimhiú there, but it is possible and older speakers would say it, because according to old grammar, "treo" is in the dative case after "i", and after a noun in the dative case, there would be a séimhiú (in Ulster, because of the same rule, people say "leis an fhear bheag" with séimhiú on the adjective, while Munster and Connemara speakers would have "leis an bhfear beag"). But I don’t think this rule still exists in the standard grammar so you can forget about it ;-) . I do use that because I'd like to speak like older speakers, seanchaithe etc ;-) Tír Chonaill abú!
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 02:09 pm: |
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Aontai/m libh, a Lughaidh is a Aonghuis, Le meas, Peter |
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