I understand the meaning of the following:...


Cad a bhí á dhéanamh ag Séan?

...but I'd feel more secure if I understood the reason for the use of "a bhí" and "á dhéanamh" and "ag Séan."

What tense is "a bhí" and "á dhéanamh?"

Literally it looks like: "What was done at Séan?"

As Béarla, le do thoil. I can read readin' but I can't read writin', which is why my writin's wrote rotten.

What (was) Séan (at the doing of)

The sentence:


Cad a bhí á dhéanamh ag Seán?

translates to English as:

What was Seán doing?

Breakdown:

Cad = what
a bhí = was
á dhéanamh = being done
ag Seán = at Seán

Here's a few samples:

Bhí sé á chrá = He was being annoyed.
Bhí sé á chrá ag Máire = Máire was annoying him.

Therefore (just to accomodate my English):

a bhí and á dheanamh = passive voice.

Why is the "a" not present in Fear's examples?

Bhí sé a chrá ag Máire.

Is it (the particle) part of the interrogative format? Cad a bhí?

Cad a bhí á dhéanamh ag Séan?

"a" is the relative particle ("which"). It follows the interrogative "cad".
"á" corresponds to "do"+"a". "do" being there to simply introduce the verbal nom "déanamh", "a" being the 3rd person possessive. "á dhéanamh" = "at its doing".
"ag" is the preposition "at". It is used here to specify the agent; in such a case, the English equivalent is "by". "ag Seán" = "by Seán"

"What is it which was at its doing by Seán?

Max, I think you're incorrect on that one.

Taking the sentence:

Bhí sé á chrá ag Máire

"á" doesn't correspond to [do] + [a]. In this instance, "á" is a different thing altogether which conveys the English meaning of "being".

Looking at the following sentence:

Tá sé á chrá

That can be interpreted two ways:

A) He is annoying him (in which case "á" is [do] + [a])

B) He is being annoyed (in which case "á" means "being")

---

A Phádraig, I don't think I understand your question.

Here's a few sentences:

I was annoying him.
Bhí mé á chrá.

Who was annoying him?
Cé a bhí á chrá?

In general, you stick in the "a" when you haven't got a straight forward sentence, e.g.:

That's the door I opened.
Sin an doras a d'oscail mé.

When did you open it?
Cathain a d'oscail tú é?

I opened the door.
D'oscail mé an doras.

"á" doesn't correspond to [do] + [a]. In this instance, "á" is a different thing altogether which conveys the English meaning of "being".

Where have you learnt that?

Looking at the following sentence:

Tá sé á chrá

That can be interpreted two ways:

A) He is annoying him (in which case "á" is [do] + [a])

B) He is being annoyed (in which case "á" means "being")

I don't agree with you.

a) He is at-his annoying (he and his refer to two different persons)
b) He is at-his(-own) annoying (same person)

You can say "Tá sé dá chrá" or "tá sé dhá chrá" as well, according to the dialect. With another pronoun, you'd have:

Bhí sé do mo chrá = he was at my annoying.
Bhí mé do mo chrá = I was at my (own) annoying.

>>Tá sé á chrá
That can be interpreted two ways:
A) He is annoying him (in which case "á" is [do] + [a])
B) He is being annoyed (in which case "á" means "being")

Fear_na_mbróg,

You're studying these Irish sentences through English, this is why you are in fact analyzing their English translation, and not the sentences themselves.

"Tá sé do mo bhualadh" = "He is at my hitting" = "He is hitting me"
"Tá sé á bualadh" = "He is at her hitting" = "He is hitting her"
"Tá sé á mbualadh" = "He is at their hitting" = "He is hitting them"
"Tá sé á bhualadh" = "He is at his hitting" = "He is hitting him(self)"

Here "do" is not the preposition "do", but simply a particle which introduces the verbal noun. In other dialects, you can have something else (like simply "a").

You can see from the examples that when "do" is followed by the "masculine 3rd person possessive" ("a"+lenition), "feminine 3rd person possessive" ("a"+prefixing h- to vowel) or "6th person possessive" ("a"+eclipsis), both combine into "á".

When the subject and the possessive are the same grammatical person, such as "he" and "his" (he is at his hitting), there is two ways of interpreting the sentence: in real life "his" can be the same person as "he", or another person. Therefore you can interpret the sentence such as "he is hitting him (that other guy)" or "he is hitting himself".

Here's an excerpt from "Nuachúrsa Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí":

---
Aidiachtaí Sealbhacha gus Ainm Briathartha

Do (réamhfhocal) + aidiacht shealbhach a chuirtear roimh ainm briathartha in ionad forainm pearsanta a bheith ar a lorg. Sa chás seo ní úsáidtear an réamhfhocal ag. Bíonn an tionchar céanna ag an aidiacht shealbhach ar thúslitir an ainm bhriathartha a bhíonn aici ar ghnáth-ainmfhocal.

Tá sé do mo bhualadh. He is striking me.
Tá sé do do chrá. He is annoying you.
á an fhoirm a ghabhann do + a (uatha, iolra). Táthaítear do le ár de réir riail Cheacht 17
Bhí mé á crá. I was annoying her.
Chonaic mé thú á bhualadh. I saw you striking him.
Beidh sé do m'ionsaí. He will be attacking me.
Táimid á híoc. We are paying her.
Tá sibh á n-ithe. You are eating them.

Nóta: Tá an abairt "Tá Seán á chrá" débhríoch.

(i) John is annoying him.
(ii) John is being annoyed.

Chun an débhríocht sin a sheachaint úsáidtear múnlaí mar iad seo a leanas:

(i) Tá sé á chrá ag Seán : He is being annoyed by John.
(ii) Tá Seán á chrá aige : John is being annoyed by him.

--

This is why I assumed "á" could simply mean "being".

Can "Tá mé á chrá" mean "I'm being annoyed"? I realise that you can say "Táthar do mo chrá", but I'm just wondering if the other form is correct also?

>>Can "Tá mé á chrá" mean "I'm being annoyed"?

I don't see how it could. "I am at his annoying" = "I am annoying him"

"Táthar do mo chrá" = "One is at my annoying" = "I am being annoyed"

Correction:

When the subject and possessive are the same grammatical person:

1/ different persons in real life:
"tá sé dhá bhualadh" / "tá sé ag bualadh Sheáin"
= "he is at his hitting / at hitting of Seán" = "he is hitting him / Seán"

2/ same person in real life:
"tá sé dhá bhualadh (ag Seán)"
= "he is at his hitting (by Seán)" = "he is being hit (by Seán)"


How would "he is hitting himself" be said?

quote:

How would "he is hitting himself" be said?

Cuir féin leis.

First of all, many thanks for your concerted efforts to answer my question. Secondly, as I read your replies and your exchanges, it becomes very evident that the answer to my question is to be found therein. Digging it out will be a truly enjoyable experience. Thirdly, we neophytes are usually in need of a simple device that will enable us to replicate and not merely translate certain expressions.

In this case I think the device I'm looking for is the distinction between the "relative" "a bhí" and "á" = do+a

Maybe I'm just incredibly easy to amuse, but Padraig, I always get such a kick out of your posts, they're really humerous.

Do you mean: "tá sé dhá bhualadh féin" ?

Do you mean: "tá sé dhá bhualadh féin" ?

Yes.

quote:

In this case I think the device I'm looking for is the distinction between the "relative" "a bhí" and "á" = do+a

I may have a tendancy to over simplify things, but here's how I think of it. When you have a straight forward sentence, it looks like so (in Irish):

[Verb] [Subject] [Object]
[Dhún] [mé] [an doras]

Notice how dhún is on its own, there's no a behind it. If you interfer with the sentence structure whatsoever, making a fancy sentence:

That's the boy who ran away.
Where's the cup I was drinking from?
When are you leaving?

then all of a sudden dhún becomes a dhún:

Sin an buachaill a theith.
Cá bhfuil an cupán óna rabhas ag ól?
Cathain a fhágfaidh tú?
---

As for do + a, it becomes dá in most circumstances:

I gave it to his father.
Thúg mé dá athair é.

But when you're working with verbal nouns, i.e. saying "I was doing, walking, smelling, climbing", then in the "Central Dialect" it's á, but elsewhere they say dá or dhá:

Bhí mé á bhualadh.
Bhí mé dá bhualadh.
Bhí mé dhá bhualadh.
I was hitting him.

Maith liom, a Fear, agus búiochas.

quote:

Maith liom, a Fear...

Ní thuigim, a Phádraig.

Is maith liom X. = I like X.
Maith dom (X). = Forgive me (for X).

Ach "maith liom" = ??

Is maith liom do freagra, a Fear na mbróg.