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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (January-February) » Archive through February 15, 2006 » Conas tá tu (vs) conas atá tú « Previous Next »

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Croga75
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Username: Croga75

Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 02:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

in my book "teach yourself irish" it teaches conas tá tú..but i have read in other sites that conas atá tú is the correct way. also....when i had the first edition it taught cad as tú for where are you from.but in the newer version its cad as duit......are they both correct.?

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 972
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 03:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

You stick "a" before a verb when it's not a normal straightforward sentence:

Cathain a d'fhág tú?
Conas a dhún tú an doras?

Thus, you would have:

Conas atá tú?

("atá" is slightly special in that the "a" becomes part of the word).

As for:

Conas tá tú?

It's confined (I think?) mostly to Munster, but nonetheless it's correct. Both forms are correct.

--

When you're saying where you're from, you can choose to "do" or not to use it:

Is as Meiriceá mé.
Is as Meiriceá dom.

Both are correct.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 914
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 03:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

All the question words are followed by relative forms of the verb, either direct relative of indirect:

Cé atá ag an doras?
Conas atá tú?
Cathain a bhí tú ann?
Cé mhéad atá air?
Cén fáth a bhfuil tú ag fanacht?
Cén uair a cheannaigh tú é?
Cá a bhfuil sé?
Cén áit a bhfuil sé?

But... the relative particle gets swallowed in pronunciation in many of those cases and is consequently not written. It's quite rare, for example, to ever see anything other than "cá bhfuil?" But since "a" is not readily swallowed in "cén áit a bhfuil..." it is practically always written, too. The deal with "conas atá" is that the final 's' of "conas" and the 't' of "atá" are homorganic (pronounced with the tongue in same place), so it's easy to slide between them and drop the intervening "a".

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Croga75
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Username: Croga75

Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 03:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

go raibh maith agaibh

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 474
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 03:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In Munster they say
"Conas tánn tú"
"Conas atá tú" is what's told to most school children

But, in Ulster they'd say
Goidé/Cad é/Caidé mar atá tú?

In the Connaught they'd say "Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?"

And of course there's
Halló. Haigh. And Bhuel (Well!?)

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Ceolmhar
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Username: Ceolmhar

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 02:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Conas atá tú" is what's taugh in Dublin schools.

I prefer "Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?". Sounds nicer.

Currently learning Irish and English. Please bear with me.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1225
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 08:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Conas atá tú" is what's taugh in Dublin schools.

Yeah, and it's really stupid because nobody says it (except learners, like). They 'd better teach things that exist in the Gaeltacht...

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Croga75
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Username: Croga75

Post Number: 27
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

which is actualy heard more.cad é mar atá tú? nó cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1226
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 06:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I don't know which dialect is the most spoken one. If we don't count all people who have learnt a bit of Irish at school, for real speakers the most spoken dialect must be the Donegal or the Connemara one, so the most used sentence must be cén chaoi a bhfuil tú? or Cad é mar atá tú?

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2890
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 06:31 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

And if you do count Galltacht speakers, the Munster version would likely win out.

A bit of fun:

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22cad+%E9+mar+at%E1+t%FA% 22&word2=%22c%E9n+chaoi+a+bhfuil+t%FA%22

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Cionaodh
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Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 135
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 07:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Scríobh Domhnall:
In Munster they say
"Conas tánn tú"


or
"Conas taoi?"

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2893
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 07:46 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

and! You'll here both, and several informal types of greeting too.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 637
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:13 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I lean towards conas atá tú for two reasons
1) it most closely corresponds to the english 'how are you' and so I think is easier for most of my student friends to remember
2) it reinforces a link to other european languages - I asked 'conas atá tú' of a colombian friend of mine at work, and he answered me in spanish and then followed with ¿Cómo está tu? which surprised me because I didn't think that was supposed to be followed by a 'tu' but when I asked him to repeat himself he said exactly the same thing again, so I'm thinking it might be a dialect thing for his part of Colombia (I don't speak Spanish). Anyway, he thought I asked him in Spanish, and it took me a good fifteen minutes to explain about the Irish.

Wow, did I ramble there or what?

Okay, time for bed.

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 476
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 04:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

They may only be used in their respective parts of the country but a Gaeilgeoir will know what you're saying..

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 926
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 08:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Anois, cuir Gaeilge ar:

Wazzup?
Howzit?
How y'all doin?
Howdy!

Creid nó ná creid, Howdy a deirimse go nádúrtha. Agus ní buachaill bó de chuid Hollywood mé.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1228
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 05:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

it most closely corresponds to the english 'how are you' and so I think is easier for most of my student friends to remember

Conas atánn tú, Cad é mar atá tú and Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú all literally mean "how are you"... The way you say "how" is just different according to the part of Ireland you come from.

2) it reinforces a link to other european languages - I asked 'conas atá tú' of a colombian friend of mine at work, and he answered me in spanish and then followed with ¿Cómo está tu?

Isn't it "Cómo estás" ? I thought "cómo está?" = how is he? but I may be mistaken because I don't speak Spanish too well.
Anyway, the similarity in sound between the Spanish and the Irish sentence is just a chance, for "cómo" and "conas".

tá and estás are etymologically similar, I think: Sp estar < Latin stare, Old Irish ad-tá < at-stá- ? (Dennis will correct me if I am wrong).

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 639
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 09:33 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Conas atánn tú, Cad é mar atá tú and Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú all literally mean "how are you"... The way you say "how" is just different according to the part of Ireland you come from."

yes, but what I meant was
conas=how atá=are tú=you = how are you
for someone who only speaks english I've found that they remember that far easier, it's short, and the words and word order correspond exactly to that they're used to saying with a one-to-one ratio of Irish words to english words.

As for the Spanish, I don't know. As I said, I don't speak it. Unlike most of my friends I took French all through school (and have recently begun trying to reclaim what I lost after so many years...sigh). The guy also doesn't speak the Spanish any of us here would learn in school, so what his dialect has to say about it I have no idea...all I know is what he said when he thought I was speaking Spanish.

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Max
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Username: Max

Post Number: 302
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 10:15 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Cad é mar atá tú?"* and "Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?"** do not "literally" mean "How are you?".

* "What is it like you are?"
** "What way is it that you are?"

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2900
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 11:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post


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Max
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Username: Max

Post Number: 303
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 01:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The same shift in meaning happens in French with "littéralement". My position is the same as in English.

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 481
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 01:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Anois, cuir Gaeilge ar:

Wazzup?
Howzit?
How y'all doin?
Howdy! "

Whazzup
Hows sí cuttin
How are ye dúin
Hhowdí
!

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1229
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 07:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Cad é mar atá tú?"* and "Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?"** do not "literally" mean "How are you?".

* "What is it like you are?"
** "What way is it that you are?"


Then "conas" doesn't literally mean "how" but "what manner".

And if you go till the very meaning of "bhfuil", it doesn't mean "to be" but "to see" in archaic Irish (Welsh cognate: gwel-) ; "cén chaoi" is "what (is) the way", "cad é mar atá tú" is what is he like that thou art", etc

;-)

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Max
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Username: Max

Post Number: 306
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 05:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

>>Then "conas" doesn't literally mean "how" but "what manner".
>>And if you go till the very meaning of "bhfuil", it doesn't mean "to be" but "to see" in archaic Irish.

The expression "very meaning" doesn't mean much, especially if you are in fact refering to the etymilogy.

The meaning of "connas" and "bhfuil" are what they are synchronically...

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1231
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 09:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Synchronically, "cad é mar" isn't perceived as "like what" by speakers either, just like "conas". "What manner" would be "cad é 'n dóigh" in Donegal, not "cad é mar".

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Max
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Username: Max

Post Number: 310
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 07:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

>> isn't perceived

It is tricky to rely on people's perception, because it varies a lot.
(For instance, illiterate people cut sentences into groups of words (syntagmes) and seem to be unable to go beyond, whereas literate people sometimes see more than there actually is because of the influence of spelling. But the language itself works the same way for everybody.)

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Seán Ó Luasa (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 12:31 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Me and all my pals use "Conas taoi?". I think it, of all of them is the most pleasant sounding. I especially like how it's no small feat to pronouce it properly; somewhere in between "tea " and "thea".

P.S. An Canúint Cúige Mumhan abú!

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 493
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 06:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cén áit ina bhfuil tú? Port Láirge? Corcaigh? Ciarraí?
Níor chuala mé duine ar bith ag rá Conas Taoi taobh amuigh des na ceantair sin.

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Cionaodh
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Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 144
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 07:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Dhomhnall,

It seems to be a generational thing. I've heard "Conas tánn tú?" more often from younger people and "Conas taoi?" more often from the over-40 set. Anyone else notice this?

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 495
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 10:33 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Since you have FRC Cionaodh,

It's

A Dhomhnaill.

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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Róman (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 11:18 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá an ceart agat, a Dhónaill.

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Cionaodh
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Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 145
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 11:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

GRMA, a Dhomhnaill; I plead lack of caffeine when I failed to attenuate your name's ending. It was early morning here when I wrote. ;-)

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Seán O Luasa (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 12:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Dhomhnaill,
Nod a bhí "Canúint Cúige Mumhan Abú" ; sea, is as Corcaigh mé.

Go n-éirí leat.



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