what are the chances of some one who's not exactly rich, moving from the US to one of the Gaeltachts for say a few years. Getting a job, beign able to aford rent and food. How much money is someone looking at to start off so that they dont starve the 2nd week theyre there. I love learning Irish. I use the Teach Yourself Irish book with the CD's. I'll get to chapter 7 but by the time i'm there i have forgotten whats in chaters 3-6. i think the only way i will be able to actualy get a grasp on it is to be around it 24-7. im just trying to figure out if it would ever be in my budget. so.if someone could estimate the cost you know.....3,4,5+ thousands dollars that help me out alot. Ive already been to Gaelsaoire.com and they have some pretty good deals for vaction. but im thinking along the lines of a much longer stay than 3 days and 4 nights

well, things are much more expensive in Ireland than the US. Not to mention, I was having a hard time with the permissions to do such things as work as a non-EU citizen in an EU country, and live (after 5 years you are eligible for citizenship, a requirement some of the rest of the EU has been leaning on Ireland to make more difficult to achieve legally, especially where US citizens are involved.)

I'd say look into NUIG's summer-long immersion programs designed to do just what you're looking for...not sure how much it costs, and I doubt it's cheap, but well worth it I'm sure and something I'm working toward myself...

The Cost of Living here is ridiculously high.
I'd say you should have a very high standard before you come.. Getting a job should be no bother..
It's estimated that the student budget per year ( i think that's about 30 weeks but maybe it's 52 ) is around e6,500.

Email the Dept of Gaeltacht. Their website is pobail.ie
Check cso.ie for figures.
And start saving! :)

a friend of mine did a semester abroad at NUIG and she said she went through approximately $10,000 and did not live a lavish lifestyle, although I'm sure at least part of that was tuition.

Are you sure about the whole non-EU-citizen working status, Domhnall? When I was initially looking into it the professors I was talking to had indicated that EU citizens get priority over non-EU citizens and that Ireland is one of the most desireable locations to find opportunities and that I'd find myself at the end of a very long list for almost any job for which I'd apply.

You won't find jobs no bother, especially in the Gaeltacht.
Living isn't that expensive relatively speaking and my American friend says it's way cheaper here.
You mightn't find that you're around it 24-7, it's very easy to live without a single word of Irish in the Gaeltacht, but it's definitely alive and kicking still, it can just hide itself very well. Generally you won't get it with youngsters, especially 'hip' youngsters who are 'too cool' for Irish or any of that malarky. You also might find people speak in English to you when you try to speak in Irish to them, when I say might I mean you definitely will. People will be friendly enough, but don't expect to corner and old guy in a bar and expect him to be your tutor, they'll speak away to you, but they'll prefer English and they won't be into teaching you anything.
I'd say you're better finding people who know the language or are learning it and hanging around with them talking Irish, that was a huge help for me and is the real reason why I'm fluent now.

Well, I'm happy to hear that the job situation is not as impossible as I was made to believe.

I have to disagree about the relative expense, however. I'm from NJ, a fairly expensive state to live in, and I found consistently that something (a meal, for instance) that would cost $7-8 in New Jersey ran €12-15 and the euro being more expensive than the dollar to begin with. This extended to other things like property values, books etc.

i was looking at books in Gaeilge on the Sinn Féin web site. they wanted something like 39 euro for teach yourself irish and the 2 cd's its like 21 bucks here....for 39 euro....Diarmuid Ó sé better come with it and read it to me haha

It makes me sad that young people think that they are "too cool" for Irish. To know Irish perfectly is something I would very much be glad of, although I know that young ones over there don't always think so. To be in a place whare you knew Irish because you'd always heard it and to be able to speak when ever you want as often as possible. Ta me fonnmhar.

Simple solution -- put a very interesting documentary on TG4 in Irish with English subtitles, something the younger (more impressionable) crowd will want to watch. Topics like prostitution and gang violence don't go awry.

not to be discouraging, but it can actually be *incredibly* difficult for an American to get a work visa in Ireland. I had one, took a year off to study, and couldn't get one again...after months of trying, i ended up having to relocate back to the US.

As noted above, EU citizens have priority. If you want to get sponsored for a work visa, you have to find an employer who is willing to hold the job for you, for at least two months while he/she lists the job vacancy on the FAS website, and probably for another month and a half/two months for the hideous, hideous paperwork to get processed.

It's not impossible--at least i hope not, as i haven't given up hope of returning--but your surest bet is enrolling in a course. you can get a student visa and work up to 20 hours a week. which is not ideal, as the cost of living in Ireland can indeed be high. but it's an option. from what i hear it's easy enough to stay and find work illegally, but that is so problematic.

you aren't by chance a nurse? i think they get fast-tracked for visas.
or are you lucky enough to have an irish granny??

whatever you decide, best of luck to you, Croga--agus Antaine freisin! i know myself how hard it can be to study Irish so far away...

but before heading for a Gaeltacht be patient, dedicate as much time as you can gathering stuff like dual language short stories with cd or cassette, trying to read the excellent BEO on line or even purchasing some other cassette courses, like Buntús Cainte. The only time I went to Ireland I had no chance to go to a celtic area, but was forced to stay in Dublin for a fortnight. Well I was surprised I could have a word or two in Gaeilge thanks to Buntús which I had read and listened to a couple of months earlier. That encouraged me to hold on. Once back home I started again studying by myself in a more well mannered way:

- I put everything I study on a Word File, copying the Irish text (Bach recommended his students to copy their musical exercises for the sake of memory) and translating it in my native language.Then I try to re-translate it into Gaeilge
- I collect all new words alphabetically on another Word File, adding to each word any morphological information I find in O'Donnell's Dictionary. This file stands for a vocabulary of my own.

looking forward to reach a Gaeltacht, I'm still studying like that "i m'aonar" (= by myself), using my tape recorder, my computer and specially my voice: you have to repeat everything aloud, languages must not be learned whispering.
You don't have to be able to remember every thing every time , (we're no machines), just work an hour a day everyday. Once in the Gaeltacht you won't get a word at first, but by and by your brain will recognize sounds and words and phrases you've got in store and you'll be able to acquire new information in a very easy way.

My best wishes for your Gaeilge

mario

Check your ancestry. I believe second and third generation Irish-Americans qualify for immediate citizenship, which would be a very fast track to employment.

you qualify if your parent or grandparent was born in ireland, but be forewarned, the US does not recognize dual citizenship and actively pursuing citizenship in another country is a de facto renunciation of your US citizenship.

I have been unable to find out if all you need do is register, which would possibly be considered a passive acquisition of citizenship, or apply, which would be active and cancel your US citizenship.

another example of passive citizenship would be in Austria, if you are made a university professor you are automatically a citizen, this would not cancel US citizenship, gaining Austrian citizenship through an application process would.

Really closed-minded of the U.S. I don't see the problem with duel citizenship in such a context as with Eire.

Many countries doen't recognize dual citizenship as it can lead to conflicting loyalties, or allow one to escape one's responsibilities to the first country.

What if the US goes to war with the second country? What if people 'escape' to the second country rather than serving in the military, paying their taxes, paying child support, standing trial or serving jailtime?

And while we can't envision the US going to war with Ireland, Irish citizenship brings EU citizenship. Look ten or fifteen years down the road, would it be possible for US and some-sort-of-EU-coalition-forces-yet-to-be-conceived to find themselves on opposite sides of an armed conflict in the middle east or elsewhere?

Anyway, it disappoints me, but I understand the 'why' behind the policy. If I ran a country, I'd do the same thing...

I don't know what you're speaking of, the US recognizes dual citizenship with a select few countries and the Republic of Ireland is one of them. My aunt has dual Ireland/USA citizenship. However this was many years ago so perhaps something has changed.

"the US does not recognize dual citizenship and actively pursuing citizenship in another country is a de facto renunciation of your US citizenship."

The US does not reconise dual citizenship but Ireland does. In that case, it is possible to own an Irish and US passport without any problems. The US does recognise that other countries recognise dual citizenship. You have to live in Ireland for 5 years to claim citizenship.

Quote from the Irish Embassy:
"If one takes up citizenship in another country, then the U.S. will consider that person to no longer be a citizen. Incidentally, the same is not necessarily true the other way around. If a person of another country becomes a U.S. citizen then, depending upon the laws of the home country, that country may still consider her/him to be a citizen. "

Irish consitution regarding naturalisation:

# The applicant must have resided in the State for five of the nine years preceding the application. The last year of this period must have been one of continuous residence.
# The applicant must satisfy the Minister that they are of good character.
# The applicant must satisfy the Minister that they intend to reside in Ireland after naturalisation.
# The applicant must make a formal declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the state.

So, if you're American and you claim an Irish passport, you're no longer recognized as a citizen of the USA. So I assume then that you'd have to move back to the States and live there for 6 years and claim naturalisation. Then you would be both Irish and American.

Unless there's been a recent change, those with an Irish-born parent or grandparent are citizens at birth and do not have to meet the residency requirement. The US does not recognize dual citizenship but I know many people here who have both passports and have no trouble with using them.

No, there's been no change regarding grand and great grand parents.

A US citizen with such luckalities could take a brief holiday to Ireland, become Irish, and go back to America and boast to their friends with their new harp-encrested book.

As far as I know it's parents and grandparents. I don't think it goes back to the next generation. And you need documentation to prove your claim. It's not done in a flash.

My apologies, I meant parent or grandparent, not great grandparent.

"A correctly completed and witnessed application form must be submitted to the relevant office, with the appropriate fee, and with supporting original documentation sufficient to demonstrate clearly the identity of the applicant and the relationship between the applicant, the parent and the Irish-born grandparent."

(Message edited by ceolmhar on January 27, 2006)

I've contacted both the Irish Consulate General in NYC and the US Dept of Citizenship and Immigration on this.

gaining US citizenship incorporates a necessary renunciation of all previous citizenships that are renouncable (Irish citizenship is, for some countries it is not, and immigrants from those countries are not penalyzed because they cannot renounce their former citizenship). Being given secondary citizenship does not constitute renunciation of US citizenship but applying for (and gaining) secondary citizenship does.

I asked the Consulate General's office about the requirements for Irish citizenship and they were the requirements marked by # signs above with one addition, at least one of those 5 years (I believe the last one, but it might have just said 'one of') needs to be not as a student. You could live in Ireland for ten continuous years on a student visa and still not qualify. Also, it is only back to grandparents that count, but look at the wording...not that the grandparent was an Irish citizen, but Irish born. My grandfather could have claimed Irish citizenship because according to the rules at the time, his parents were irish born and therefore citizens. He lived there for a short time as a child, but I don't know if he ever got official citizenship. In the end it is moot because he wasn't born there he is not 'irish born'. My mother can claim it, because my great-grandparents are her grandparents and are Irish born, and had she done so before my birth, and I filed before the rules were changed in the 80s I could have gotten it that way, but even if she were to file now it would not apply to me because a) it was after my birth and b) she wasn't born there, even though she'd be a citizen.

I enquired with the US Dept. of Citizenship and Immigration Services specifically about Irish citizenship. Their answer was basically if you're given it as a matter of course without asking it's okay, but if you must apply it is a renunciation of your US citizenship.

How about you get your Irish passport and don't tell the USA? Seems like the logical thing to do. . . in fact, I think you'd have to be retarded to give up your USA citizenship if all you had to do was not tell the US government that you got an Irish passport.

The only question left to be answered is:

Can you get an Irish passport without the USA being informed?

(Message edited by Fear_na_mBróg on January 28, 2006)

A friend of mine is living in the USA, whose father is from Northern Ireland. She was born in the US.

If she wanted, she could get an Irish passport, a British passport and a US passport.

I'd get them all for the craic! Take them out at parties!

fear, i suppose it would theoretically be possible to get one and not tell the US *but* if it ever came to light you would be totally screwed.

there are several other issues as well
1) some countries require renunciation of previous citizenships in the citizenship process (Ireland does not)

2) some countries will still require you to file for taxes even if you hadn't lived there that year. I don't believe Ireland does, but I'm pretty sure the US does, and I don't know about the UK. You have to be careful to follow all laws in absentia or you may find yourself arrested at the airport upon return to whichever country whose laws you broke unwittingly. You will need to say on top of laws passed by the EU to ensure you are in compliance, and may find yourself paying taxes twice somewhere down the road.

3) some countries require military service like France and Israel as part of citizenship. Ireland does not, but not carefully choosing your country may find you either in a uniform or a fugitive.

well unfortunatly for me.....my Irish roots back a bit further than my grandmother....how far?...that i dont know. the fact that im ever part irish is something passed down through the generations. Regardless though.if i found out that i wasnt Irish at all......i would still learn Gaeilge for the simple fact that i rather enjoy it. Maybe i'll just chaulk living in Ireland up to one of the many dreams that i have

quote:

Can you get an Irish passport without the USA being informed?

I have a number of friends, some American-born and some Irish-born, who have both passports. I suppose the Irish-born naturalized US citizens had to formally renounce their Irish citizenship. But I guess they didn't mention that to the Irish government. They use both passports, but selectively. In our hemisphere, I think it's the Mexican government that is strictest about not permitting dual citizenship.

I realise we're semi-off-topic here, but what the hey it's interesting.

To say that a country/nation forbids "dual citizenship", does that mean they won't let you be a citizen of any other country/nation while being a citizen of that nation at the same time.

Well the first problem I see with this is:
A) It can't be enforced. Elvis Presley could be a citizen of Aghanistan for all the American Government know.

Secondly, the only actual way of enforcing any such law is that, when they find out you're a citizen of another country, they terminate your citizenship.

Would "multiple citizenship" not be a better term, as "dual" explicitly refers to "two". Here's a pretty quick way of producing a child with three passports:

Take a fella from Northern Ireland, get him to marry an American woman. The child can get all three passports. Just don't spill the beans to the US.

(Message edited by Fear_na_mBróg on January 28, 2006)