Can someone please explain:

The Daltai Phrases page says "dia duit." "Teach yourself" says "dia dhuit." But, Daltai's sound clip sounds like "dhuit."

I think it's a case of the customary pronunciation over-riding the spelling. O'Donaill's "Irish on your Own" spells it Dia duit, but most of the taped pronunciations I've heard are GWITCH with a very soft CH on the end. I suspect the use of DH in print is to signal the G sound so frequently heard.

Cad deir sibh, a saineaolithe?

>> Cad deir sibh, a saineaolithe? <<

What's behind you, in expertise? (that's a dictionary guess)

How much do I know? Not much -- brave beginner.

I have thirty more pronunciation questions because I don't have access to a live teacher, but I'm working on it.

How could it be harder: unfamiliar letter sounds, mystery vowels, eclipsis & lenition, dialects, and now "customary pronunciation over-riding the spelling"?

Go raibh maith agat, for your response.

>> Cad deir sibh, a saineaolithe? <<


What do you say, experts?

I was asking for input from that group of board members who are well versed in linguistic matters, and who are much more knowledgeable than I am.

And as to the difficulties you're encountering, you're not alone. Some of us have been at it for years. Don't give up. This forum is well populated by many kind and well informed souls who are always willing to help.



(Message edited by pádraig on January 13, 2006)

It is ever so confusing to me too. I just chalk it up to the fact that I've been speaking and reading in English for so many years so my mind isn't used to the rules of writing and corralating that to pronouncing. The thing that trips me up when I try to work on understanding the rules is all the "extra" letters, which I know are there for a purpose and represent sounds that are different than English, but still. Right now I'm trying to figure out what sound "dh" makes at the end of word. That's because some of you have it at the end of your names and I want to be able to pronounce them.

http://www.erinsweb.com/gaelic1.html

This link should get you to some basic instruction that incorporates a pronunciation guide for persons who have no Irish speakers to listen to. It can't be 100% accurate, but it gets you into the ballpark.

By the way, this particular guide pronounces duit as 'git.'

Even I can handle this ;O) (although being a complete beginner).

quote:

The Daltai Phrases page says "dia duit." "Teach yourself" says "dia dhuit." But, Daltai's sound clip sounds like "dhuit.

There are certain words which are always lenited, usually auxiliary ones like prepositions. It is the case of word "do" when connected with pronoun. In all dialects bar Ulster these forms are pronounced [and spelled] with dh-. E.g.: dhom, dhuit, dhó etc. Only in Ulster the corresponding form is pronounced [and spelled] with d-: dom, duit, dó etc. As majority of learner follows Cois Fhairrge pronunciation and this is the [majority] pronunciation of both RnaG and TG4 it is safe to use lenited forms.

quote:

Right now I'm trying to figure out what sound "dh" makes at the end of word.

A Riona, a chara,
this is the case to worry the least - the sounds dh/gh are pronounced properly only in the beginning of the word. In the middle of the words they are merged with preceding vowels and at the end of the word following -a, -o, -u they are not pronounced at all. So just skip them. The only exception is -igh/-idh which are pronounced in certain situation in Munster but I don't think you should worry about it at this stage.

P.s. If anyone has some [simple] pronunciation questions I might attempt to help being a little expert after having read so much on Irish pronunciation. I know best Munster pronunciation (especially Múscraí), to some extent Conamara. Not at an expert in Dún na nGall at all, although I know trick or two about those as well.

Question about broad gh/dh:

On the Learning Irish cassettes I have, they are pronounced as voiced uvular fricatives.
Where are they pronounced as voiced velar fricatives?

At least in Donegal. Actually I’ve never heard broad gh- and dh- pronounced as uvular fricatives, but I believe you.

Right now I'm trying to figure out what sound "dh" makes at the end of word.

Our family name is MacGafraidh. We don't pronounce the final dh.

Actually, -dh is not pronounced at the end of a word, most of the time. Final -(a)idh is pronounced /i/ in Donegal, /ə/ in Connemara (I think) and /ig'/ in Munster.

Final -(e)adh is /u/ in Ulster, /əx/ in Munster and Connemara when it is a conjugated verb ending (habitual past, conditional etc), and /ə/ in Munster and Connemara in other cases. In Munster there are other variants according to the place, /əv/ and /əg/.

Thank you all for your kind help.

Róman,

>>There are certain words which are always lenited, usually auxiliary ones like prepositions. It is the case of word "do" when connected with pronoun. In all dialects bar Ulster these forms are pronounced [and spelled] with dh-. E.g.: dhom, dhuit, dhó etc. Only in Ulster the corresponding form is pronounced [and spelled] with d-: dom, duit, dó etc. <<

So, in "Cad is ainm duit," is that "duit" pronounced or written "dhuit"?

Leave it to me to get stuck on Hello. :)

quote:

So, in "Cad is ainm duit," is that "duit" pronounced or written "dhuit"?

Most people will say it as dhuit. It can be correctly written either way. I personally prefer the more "abstract" spellings "dom, duit, dó" etc.

Cad is ainm duit? is a Munster sentence (only dialect in which cad is used for "what"; Connemara > céard, Donegal > cad é).

Duit = do + tú.

As is has been said above, the forms of "conjugated" 'do' begin with dh- in Munster and Connemara, and with d- in Ulster, sometimes in Munster:

Ulster: domh, duit, dó, daoithe, dúinn, daoibh, daofa
Connemara: dhom, dhuit, dhó, dhi, dhúinn, dhaoibh, dhóibh
Munster: d(h)om, d(h)uit, d(h)ó, d(h)i, d(h)úinn, d(h)aoibh, d(h)óibh

quote:

So, in "Cad is ainm duit," is that "duit" pronounced or written "dhuit"?

No, mea culpa, too fast generalisations from my side! Ok, let's refine what I have said:

Dom, duit, dó etc are pronounced with dh- after vowel in Munster and Conamara, always d- in Ulster.

So (in Munster and Conamara):

Dia dhuit, Dia dhaoibh! [to be precise in Munster it is pronounced as if spelled "Dia dhíbh" with English y- sound], but:

Cad is ainm duit. [last word is pronounced like English doty, y being like in word year, not like in sunny]

Le meas, and tá brón orm for misleading.