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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (January-February) » Archive through January 09, 2006 » Damn caighdeán arís! « Previous Next »

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Róman (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 02:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dia dhíbh!

Tá cheist beag agam. I was always under impression that the essence of caighdeán introduction was to eliminate reputedly "silent" consonants. Leaving aside the question if those consonants have been silent after all, like tráigh in Munster or léighim in Ulster, I was sure there was no tampering with vowels. Alas! According to "Irish of West Muskerry" the classical spelling of "prepared" was "ollamh" which is duly pronounced [ol@v] in Múscraí. However, as I have seen this word is to be spelled "ullamh" now. What was the point of changing the spelling from exactly the equivalent to something different. The same story with word "egg" - "ogh" ([ov] in Múscraí) - it is spelled "ubh" although pronounced "obh. What's going on?

le meas,
is mise Róman as Liotuáin

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1197
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 06:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ollamh and ullamh are not the same word. Ollamh = a university professor; ullamh = ready.

Short u's are pronounced as unrounded o's most of the time, except when they are at the end of a word or followed by -gh, -dh, -bh, -mh. There are exceptions in some dialects, as you said: ubh /ov/ in Muskerry. It is pronounced /əf/ in NW Donegal (actually it could be spelled "uibh", because according to the spelling, "ubh" should be pronounced /u/ in Donegal).

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Róman (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 02:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What is the etymology of word "ollamh" (professor)? Isn't it adjective "ullamh" turned noun? in a sence "duine ullamh"->"ollamh"?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2751
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 03:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dár le MacBain: http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/mb28.html#ollamh

ollamh

a learned man, a doctor, so Irish, Old Irish ollam, g. ollaman; from Irish oll, great (root pol, pel, plê, full, fill).

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 811
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 03:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ollamh = OI ollam < oll (= great) + -am (superlative adjectival suffix)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2754
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 03:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Samplaí eile:

ollscoil - university
ollpheist - monster (huge worm, fch wyrm an Bhéarla)
ollmhargadh - supermarket.



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