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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (November-December) » Archive through December 23, 2005 » Foirmeacha "ba" -- The forms of "ba" « Previous Next »

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 918
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 10:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Ba" is the past tense of "Is".

It was a dog.
Ba mhadra é.

It causes a séimhiú:

Ba gharda é.
Ba bhean í.
Ba mhúinteoir é.
Ba mhaith liom subh.

Before a vowel it becomes "b'":

B'fhéidir liom snámh.
B'asal é.
B'aoibhinn liom dul go Luimneach.
B'ait an cailín í.

Except when you have "é", "í", "iad" (or their emphatic forms):

Ba é Seán an ceannaire.
Ba í Máire an mháthair.
Ba iad Niamh agus Pól na páistí.

I want to clarify when "ba" becomes "ab". I was taught the following at school:

Seán is the oldest boy in the class.
Is é Seán an buachaill is sine sa rang.

Seán was the oldest boy in the class, before Pól came.
Ba é Seán an buachaill ba shine sa rang, roimh theacht do Phóil.

Máire is the most beautiful girl in the class.
Is í Máire an cailín is áille sa rang.

Máire was the most beautiful girl in the class, before Sinéad came.
Ba í Máire an cailín ab áille sa rang, roimh theacht do Shinéad.

Does every dialect use "ab" in the above sentence?

What about in the following:

Seán is ainm do.
Seán ab ainm dó.

Does every dialect use "ab" in the above sentence?

Feirmeoir is ea é Seán
Feirmeoir ab ea é Seán.

I've seen many written examples of "Feirmeoir ba ea é Seán", so I presume this is dialectal?

Before a vowel, you have "b'" in direct speech, and "ab" in indirect speech. Is this correct?

One thing though, I notice that when you want to express "taller, bigger, more beautiful", you use "b'" instead of "ab":


Bhí Máire go hálainn.
Ba í Máire an cailín ab áille sa rang.
Bhí Máire ní b'álainn ná Sinéad. (rather than "ní ab álainn")

Is all of the above right?

I see that some dialects are more particular about when they séimhiú after "ba", and also about when they turn "gur" into "gurb". Would many dialects say:

Deir sé gurb amadán é.

Or would more say:

Deir sé gur amadán é.

Finally, is there any particular circumstances in which people use "go mba" instead of "gur, gurbh" or are they equivalent?

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1187
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 11:21 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Seán is ainm do.
Seán ab ainm dó.

Does every dialect use "ab" in the above sentence?


Donegal dialect does.

Feirmeoir is ea é Seán
Feirmeoir ab ea é Seán.


I have learnt that this kind of sentence is typical of Munster dialect.

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Maidhc_Ó_g
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Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 113
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 08:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Wouldn't the second examples be questions, just using different word order?

Ba Máire an cailín (ab áille?) sa rang.

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Max
Member
Username: Max

Post Number: 281
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 08:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

>>Wouldn't the second examples be questions, just using different word order?

They are relative clauses.

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1188
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 07:34 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ba Máire an cailín (ab áille?) sa rang.

The right sentence would be "Ba í Máire an cailín ab áille sa rang."

Tír Chonaill abú!

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Maidhc_Ó_g
Member
Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 114
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 10:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aw yes, I've found that now guys. Grma. "Comparitive degrees of adjectives with past tenses or conditional".

"When a sentence is in the past tense or conditional,ní ba frequently replaces níos in a comparison, and ba replaces is in the superlative."

- Ó Siadhail
Learning Irish Ch 32.6.



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