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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 1153 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 06:22 pm: |
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Haigh a chairde I'd like to talk about the pronounciation of final verbal -igh and -idh in Munster Irish, because some of us don't pronounce them well in the recordings. The rule is: - final verbal -(a)igh and -(a)idh (as in -f(a)idh) , -óidh, -eoidh have a final slender g in pronounciation in Munster Irish ONLY when the following subject is another thing than the personal pronouns (mé, mise, tú, tusa, sé, seisean, sí, sise, muid, muidne, sinn, sinne, sibh, sibhse, siad, siadsan). With these pronouns, the ending is: -(a)igh, -(a)idh = /ə/ -óidh, -eoidh = /oː/ With other subjects (demonstrative pronouns, nouns, etc) you'd have: -(a)igh, -(a)idh = /ig´/ -óidh, -eoidh = /oːg´/ So: rachaidh mé /raə m´eː/ (actually "raghaidh" in Munster) rachaidh Seán /raig’ s’ɑːn/ ceannóidh sé /k´aNoː s´eː/ ceannóidh Bríd /k´aNoːg´ b´r´iːd´/ chuaigh tú /xuːə tuː/ chuaigh an fear /xuːig´ ə f´ar/ That is to say, "thriomaigh sé" is never pronounced /hr´omig´ s´eː/ but /hr´omə s´eː/. See An Teanga Bheo: Corca Dhuibhne p. 45 (about ceannaigh), etc. Tír Chonaill abú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2673 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 04:23 am: |
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I'm reassured if that is all you can find to complain about! But I can't see the IPA symbols, and I'm not sure what is wrong. |
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Jonas
Member Username: Jonas
Post Number: 851 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 04:42 am: |
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The pronounciation guidelines Lughaidh gives are correct, but what he's written isn't really Munster Irish. It's Standard Irish with a Munster pronunciation. Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps the headline shouldn't say "Munster Irish". I'm in a terrible rush, so I'll come back to this subject in the afternoon. (Message edited by Jonas on December 12, 2005) |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 1156 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 05:34 am: |
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I do know that, Jonas, but I just wanted to help people who speak standard Irish with a Munster-like pronounciation. I know they say "raghad" for rachaidh mé, ceannód for ceannóidh mé, do chuas for chuaigh mé etc in Munster. But the principle is the same if people want to say "chuaigh mé", they have to know that it isn't possible to say "chuaig mé" because you can't say "chuaig sé" but "chua sé", etc. Tír Chonaill abú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2674 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 06:04 am: |
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Is dóigh liom go dtuigim. Éistfead leis an méid a dúirt mé arís. Ach ní fheicim ach cearnóga do roinnt de'd IPA thuas! (Message edited by aonghus on December 12, 2005) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2675 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 08:30 am: |
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To avoid any misunderstanding - I do not claim to speak Munster Irish. The Irish I speak is most heavily influenced by Munster Irish, and my accent is heavily influenced by/close to Munster Irish. But I am an urban speaker of Irish, subject to many influences. It should not be assumed that my pronunciation is intended to be an accurate guide to any particular dialect. I read for the recodings as naturally as possible, without any attempt to be perfect. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 1157 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 08:36 am: |
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Is dóigh liom go dtuigim. Éistfead leis an méid a dúirt mé arís. Ach ní fheicim ach cearnóga do roinnt de'd IPA thuas! ?? Tá eagla orm nach dtuigim cad é atá á ráidht agat... The Irish I speak is most heavily influenced by Munster Irish, and my accent is heavily influenced by/close to Munster Irish. I know, but "thriomaigh mé" wouldn't be pronounced /hr´omig´ m´eː/ in any dialect, so if you pronounce like that, it isn't because your Irish has many influences... ;-) Tír Chonaill abú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2676 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 11:12 am: |
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Ní fheicim gach litir IPA (níl na clófoirne cearta agam is dócha), mar sin ní haon chabhair dom iad. Many influences includes wrong ones! I made a mistake, I'll fix it. Normally I would pronounce it without the "g" sound at the end. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 1159 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
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Strange that you can't see all symbols. In Gentium there are all IPA symbols. Where have you downloaded the font from? Does somebody else have the same problem? About final -igh/-idh, we have kinda the same difficulty in Donegal (but not in Connemara I think), these endings are pronounced /ə/ when the following subject is mé, tú, sé, sí, etc, and /i/ in other cases: rachaidh mé /Rahə m´a/ rachaidh Seán /Rahi s´æːn/ chuaigh sé /xuə s´a/ chuaigh Bríd /xuəj b´r´iːd´/ ceannó(cha)idh mé /k´aNahə m´a/ ceannó(cha)idh an bhean /k´aNahi nv´an/ In Connemara, as far as I know, they prononce all these -igh, -idh as /ə/ whatever the subject is. Tír Chonaill abú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2678 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 04:45 pm: |
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I haven't downloaded gentium (yet). I can see the symbols at home, but not at work. However, since I don't understand all of them... |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 1163 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 04:59 pm: |
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Just ask me if there is a symbol you don't know ;-) Tír Chonaill abú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2679 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 05:07 pm: |
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Cén mhaith é sin? Bheadh orm é a chlos, agus fiú ansin ní bheinn cinnte é thabhairt liom. Níl sé ar mo chumas do mhionanailís ar fhuaimeanna a leanacht. Baineann sé le do ghairm, agus tuigim dhuit - ach ní hé mo ghairmse é. |
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