Hi Folks,
I need a few tips le bhur dtoil,
There's a certain aspect of grammar I keep falling down on.
It's what to do when you have a verbal noun without a direct object following a prepositional pronoun.

In a sentence like -
I'm looking forward to seeing you tomorrow
Táim ag súil le - I'm looking forward
but Taim ag súil le tú/thú a fheiceáil amárach (looks wrong)
and Táim ag súil leat a fheiceáil amárach (doesn't look right either)
Can a verbal noun follow a prepositional pronoun or only a pronoun?

I know about the 'do do fheiceáil' construction but that's not the answer here, is it? :)

Another one -
What do you think that we should do?
Cad a cheapann tú gur chóir dúinn déanamh or a dhéanamh

It's the same problem with a verbal noun following a prepositional pronoun. Maybe 'ba' instead of 'gur' also, I'm still trying to recognise when a sentence is direct or indirect.

Sorry for all the questions

quote:

Táim ag súil le tú/thú a fheiceáil amárach (looks wrong)

Ach níl sé contráilte ar chor ar bith. Tá leagan eile ann:

Táim ag súil le d'fheiceáil.

But this seems a bit more old-fashioned to me.

quote:

Cad a cheapann tú gur chóir dúinn déanamh or a dhéanamh

It sounds better to me to say "a dhéanamh". I think you can restructure the sentence, somewhat artificially, to explain this:

Ceapann tú gur chóir dúinn cad a dhéanamh?

Togha, míle buíochas duit as ucht do chabhair, Dennis. Táim dóchasach go dtitfidh sé ina áit cheart lá éigin.

(Message edited by Asarlaí on December 01, 2005)

I agree with Dennis for both questions. The sentence "Cad a cheapann tú gur chóir dúinn déanamh" is wrong, as "Cad é ba chóir déanamh" is wrong.

Although you can't say "le tú" if you mean "with you", you can have "le" followed by "tú" in that case:

Táim ag dúil le t(h)ú a fheiceáil

because the groups are

[táim] [ag dúil le] [t(h)ú a fheiceáil]

I'd say:

Táim ag súil le tú a fheiceáil.

I choose "tú" over "thú" here because I'm used to the non-lenition characteristics of "le". But with a different preposition:

Táim ag smaoineamh ar thú a mharú.

Grma a leaids!
scríobh: Fear na mbróg
I choose "tú" over "thú" over here because I'm used to the non-lenition characteristics of "le". But with a different preposition:Táim ag smaoineamh ar thú a mharú

I like it, apart from the last part :)

FnaB got me thinking about "tú" v. "thú". I think that in all dialects we can only use "tú" when it's the subject and directly follows its verb:

tá tú, ólann tú, d'ól tú, is tú, etc. (never Cheannaigh thú leabhar.)

But beyond that, there seems to be a good deal of variation, with different dialects following different rules. I think I normally lenite "tú" to "thú" in all other positions:

Chonaic mé thú.
Tháinig mé le thú a fheiceáil.
Is ealaíontóir thú.
idir mise agus t(h)usa (I have to admit that here I'll say either!)

Céard a cheapann tú faoi céard a dhéanfaímis?
Céard a cheapfá faoi céard a dhéanfaímis?
Seo é an leagan a chuifinnse ar do cheist ......

Grma arís Dennis agus Mick,

I was going to ask this question on the verbal noun thread but I'll keep it here for tidiness..

How are the verbal nouns put together in a sentence like -
I was starting to think that ...
They were beginning to believe in it...

Dunno.
I'd say:
Bhí mé ag teacht ar an tuairim (go)
Bhí siad ag teacht ar an tuairim

"believe" is a fairly vague word in English; what strength of belief do you mean?

Asarlaí --

quote:

What do you think that we should do?
Cad a cheapann tú gur chóir dúinn déanamh or a dhéanamh

Dennis --

quote:

Ceapann tú gur chóir dúinn cad a dhéanamh?

I read the second sentence as "Do you think that what he is doing is right for us?"
Is that an incorrect translation? If so, why?

The second is not a "real" sentence. It's certainly not grammatical Irish. It's just a reconfiguration of the original syntax in an attempt to explain why we use "a dhéanamh" and not "déanamh".

Scríobh: Aonghus
Bhí mé ag teacht ar an tuairim (go)
Bhí siad ag teacht ar an tuairim

"believe" is a fairly vague word in English; what strength of belief do you mean?

Is maith sin a Aonghuis,
Believe was just a random word in this case. I was curious to see how sentences like 'beginning to think/say/wonder' were in Irish. That's a useful example you've given me there. Grma

Fáilte romhat.

I'm not good at abstract sentences, because I don't think in that kind of category!

Hi folks,

Whilst writing out sentences for practice I ran into another uncertainty.

(ná bígí ag gáire) :)
I'm not sure whether the Irish below is (a) or (b)
Ní mian le duine ar bith thú a imeacht
a)No one wants you to leave - b)No one wants to leave you
How do I differentiate?

And what would the word order be if another verb/verbal noun is involved.
No one wants to see you leave

The verb "imigh" is intransitive, so it can't take an object ("leave you"). You'll need a transitive verb in (b). "Fág" would work there, but it can also be intransitive, which means that "Ní mian le duine ar bith thú a fhágáil" is ambiguous in precisely the way you've stated! I'd usually just rely on context to disambiguate this. Otherwise, the sense of (b) can be conveyed by choosing another phrasing entirely, perhaps "Ní mian le duine ar bith a chúl a thabhairt leat."

quote:

No one wants to see you leave

If you mean this very literally (that viewing the departure is what people want to avoid), I suppose you could say "Ní mian le duine ar bith thú a fheiceáil ag imeacht." There are certainly other solutions to all of the above. Tá mé i ndóchas nach ndearna mé aon tuaiplis mhór sa mhéid seo. Beidh a fhios againn roimh i bhfad! ;-)

Scríobh: Dennis
Tá mé i ndóchas nach ndearna mé aon tuaiplis mhór sa mhéid seo. Beidh a fhios againn roimh i bhfad! ;-)

Mo leithscéal a Dennis, níor mhaith liom an iomarca trioblóid a tharraingt ort ;)

Grma, b'iontach an miniú é sin.