Are you satisfied with Fine Gael's policy ennunciated by Enda Kenny yesterday?

He can be contacted at

Eoin Ó Riain

Tá téacs ag gabháil thart ag fógairt léirsiú ó Choláiste na Tríonóide go hoifigí Fine Gael Dé Céadaoin seo chugainn ag 13.00.

Well,
since I do not see the langauge as taught in the schools as in anyway contributing to any lingusitic communinity, what does it matter if irish is removed?

Ireland is only Iar-Bhreatain anyway

It does. A samll number - e.g. Fear na mBróg, discover the language that way, and are inspired to look for more.


If there were more enthusiastic and fluent teachers, that number would be greater.


Doing away with the irish entry requirement for the Civil service eroded the rights and status of irish speakers.

If this proposal is carried, it will contribute to the irish doesn't sell the cow mentality which is a major factor in Gaeltacht parents abandoning the language at home.

It is interesting that Enda Kenny announced this policy without debate, prior to the conference.
A similar motion at the Labour Party conference was withdrawn, because all delegates who spoke on the motion opposed it.

Yet, Labour (who were instrumental in setting up TG4) will be labasted as anti Gaeilge.

Well what do you expect from a royalist party? (and both sides of my family are blueshirts!)

"Doing away with the irish entry requirement for the Civil service eroded the rights and status of irish speakers."

Indeed that was the case. But gaeilgeoirí in the gallatact did themselves a dissrvice by pushing for irish everywhere. if they had focusses on specific areas, or specific geographies, the 'langue freedom movement' would not have achived it's petty goals to the degree it did.

Anyway, why are we listening to the Anglo-Irish at this stage? Two weeks ago, in Leitrim, Russians were beaten up by hurlies. I was there that night told them where to go i nGaeilge (which confused them) and whent off before the fractas started. But like, its the enemy within that are the problem, not people looking for work who have a right to be here.

Maybe the reaosn the Sunday Britain is so afraid of Sinn Féin/IRA is that if they get into power, there will be another column, or even a potential new establishment, who will be ill au fait with the likes of MR anthony O'Reilly and the cohort he represents. I find it hard to beleive that the angloirish-stroke-anglo(liberal elite) really care for new immegrints as they propurt to do. Do they live with them, as I do?

(Message edited by admin on May 19, 2006)

I think the immigrants are a good excuse to destroy everything Irish as horribly racist and attack everyone Irish who they don't like as being horribly racist, backward, civil war politics, etc ad nauseam.

Robert - Were the Russians beaten by hurlies or with hurlies (camán) ? I find your Bearla very unusual. Is it your native language?

Where can we read about this new policy (in English)?

It was in a speech that Enda announced it ex cathedra, but the speech seems not to be on the Fine Gael website. (www.finegael.ie)

You will likely be able to follow the debate in both languages by keeping an eye on Gaelport's daily cuttings

http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=gearrthoga_laethuil&tid=26

I Think You Should Stop Learning Us Irish

"Were the Russians beaten by hurlies or with hurlies (camán) ?"

By or with, whats the difference semantically? I was writing fast, so dont read much into the apparent emotive timbre underpinning the post. It isn't there.

I'd say they were pretty put out to be attacking locals, most likely due to their irish bosses stealing wages, not giving the overtime rate etc General good old irish racism, but of course 'we never were a colonial power' etc etc (so who manned the British army?)

by hurlies - thosaigh na camáin, as a stuaim fhéin, ag bualadh na Rúisigh!

An article at Eurolang:

http://www.eurolang.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2517&Itemid=0

And most of what he said, from the examiner:

http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=713

Tá aon Ruis briste (agus briste is ea) san ospidéal anois. Níl an fios agam go bhfuil sé go hOK.

"Enda Kenny, himself a fluent Irish speaker"
Well its hard to know as he hyms and haws in either tongue!

"a real engagement with this beautiful language"
Well when it is rekeyed to English phonetics and prosody it is nto beautiful

"E500m"
Like on one subject at school?

"Those who decide to continue will share classes with those who want to be there, learning Irish, rather than those who wish they weresomewhere else, learning something else"

Well I ahve seen smoking and a teacher assaulted during Irish class. You cannot know if you live outside of Ireland how little the youth care. Anyway, much fo the working classes in places like Dublin are an extension fo the English working classes, so focussing Irish where it will take root might be the better and more pragmatic option.

"if Irish were optional many schools would simply choose not to provide it any more"

Somethign I could see happening all over the place.

"An Acht Teanga"

Ou est le 't' (an t-acht teanga)

" remarkable renaissance of the Irish language over the past decade."

No, not a renaissance, but a badly needed acknowledgement that minorities and their interests should be acknowledged

"Using modern teaching methods I am sure that you can teach a child any language within 6 months"

Well no, as most methods are in the stone age. Should read "if teaching methods were modern...6 months" etc

"Minister Hanafin"

She her on 'Mo Laethanta Saoire' ar TG4? She (to mine own ears, at least) seems to have very decent irish in the Munster format

Anyway, that are people's ideas here on his proposal?

As a teacher, I see clearly the limitations of even the best run classrooms. What is needed for Irish is not educational reform (or, should I say, not *only* educational reform) but societal reform.

Irish will never survive as "english's little brother" in Ireland. The government needs to phase out english in all areas where it has the control to do so...everything from tax forms to road signs to court and legislative proceedings. It then needs to offer monetary incentive to get Irish used in the private sector. Stipends to businesses, full scholarships and preferential admittance to universities for students, tax breaks and perks to families - not just in the gaeltacht but the whole country over.

In short, the Irish government needs to UNDO what the british government spent centuries doing. If a country's native tongue can be phased out in favor of its oppressors', then the oppressors' tongue can be phased out in favor of the native one.

Remember, there was a time when there was no english spoken in Ireland. If english could become the predominant language from a position of nonexistance then Irish can once again become the predominant language from her current position.

It's hard to learn another language, and harder still to find the motivation to do so when your current language is a strong global one. The answer? Don't give people the choice, but reward them greatly for their indulgence. The Irish forsook their native tongue because the Other was seen as the way of power. Reverse that paradigm and you will reverse the trend.

I agree with much of what Antaine writes - certainly the sentiments if not the conclusions.
However the fundamental point remains unanswered - perhaps even un-asked.
That is, what objective or vision for the language do the Irish government (one might almost say "of the Men and Women of Ireland", with a nod to Flann O'Brien)actually have?
Some folks seem to dream of a state where only Irish is spoken - which realistically is just not going to happen.
So, if not that...then what, exactly?
A truly bilingual state (er...like Canada, or South Africa or Belgium...with all the tribal division entailed?)

Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing for a particular model at all..I genuinely don't think that Irish politicians and institutions have actually worked out what they want to see in terms of the position of the language either.
What politicians seem to prefer to prattle on about is how to "restore" the language etc etc - which is putting the strategy before the objectives, surely? The issue of how we then achieve goals, what resources and measures are required etc,must follow some clear articulation of the desired result.
Le meas, Dáithí

Scata litir agus alt san Irish Times inniu - a few letters and an article in the Irish Times today

http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&dates=2005-11

Ireland is only Iar-Bhreatain anyway.
That in itself is another reason why we should teach Gaeilge to ALL of our nations children.