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Antoin
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 07:04 am: |   
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Is é mo laoch ná M.Scott
Does 'ná' have a different meaning in a copula construction? |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2333
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 07:59 am: |
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Don't know the technicalities. But the answer is yes: ná [cónasc] focal faisnéiseach leis an gcopail (is é ainm a bhí air ná Séadna). Try "ná" in http://www.csis.ul.ie/focloir/ to see the full range. |
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Antoin
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 12:31 pm: |
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Aonghus,
Im stll lost,
How would that sentence translate then?
'M.Scott is my hero..'
Corrections welcome |
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Larry
Member
Username: Larry
Post Number: 79
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 01:03 pm: |
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Yes (in my opinion) your translation is correct.
O'Dónaill's FGB (p892) describes ná in this case as a "pleonastic conjunction used with the copula" and, as well as the example given by Aonghus, also sites "Is é a duirt siad ná gur dhíol sé a anam leis an diabhal" - What they said was that he sold his soul to the devil.
Larry Ackerman
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member
Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 387
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 02:01 pm: |
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This is a Munster usage whose origin Dinneen explains thus:
Cad a bheadh ann ach cloch? > Cad a bheadh ann ná cloch? > Is é a bhí ann ná cloch.
This use of ná is not traditional in Connaught or Ulster. Rather, one would say: "Is é mo laoch é M. Scott"; "Cloch a bhí ann"; "Is é a dúirt siad gur dhíol sé a anam leis an diabhal."
Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 944
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 02:40 pm: |
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I have learnt at Coleraine University (Ulster) that the "ná" in that kind of sentence is just optional and you can drop it without any problem. It doesn’t mean anything. As Peadar said, it is only usual in Munster. In my dialect (Ulster), people never use it, except younger people, whose Irish is influenced by Standard Irish (because of school) or by other dialects (through speaking much with people from Munster or learners speaking the Standard).
Tír Chonaill abú!
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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 514
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 03:18 pm: |
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quote:except younger people, whose Irish is influenced by Standard Irish (because of school) or by other dialects (through speaking much with people from Munster or learners speaking the Standard) Vive le métissage! :-) Meascadh abú! |
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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 947
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 04:06 pm: |
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Tant que c'est naturel...
Tír Chonaill abú!
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 815
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 05:57 am: |
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I use it when I want to put a clear line between the two yokies I'm linking. For instance:
Is buachaill é Máirtín.
There's no need for "ná" there, it's easy to tell where "buachaill" ends and where "Máirín" begins. But if you have a more complicated one:
Is í príomh-aidhm Aire Ghnóthaí Eachtracha na hÉireann ná go ligfí do shaoránaigh Éireann dul ar aghaidh gan bhac gan chos, agus gach cúnamh agus caomhnú a thabhairt dhóibh.
Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 949
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 06:55 am: |
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I don't see why it wouldn't be as clear without the "ná"...
Tír Chonaill abú!
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2347
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 07:56 am: |
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It would be. But "ná" adds emphasis. |
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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 950
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 09:21 am: |
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I don’t see why: in Munster they use it, elsewhere they don't. Maybe it adds emphasis on the dialect that is used ;-)
Tír Chonaill abú!
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2349
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 10:22 am: |
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ná [cónasc]
focal faisnéiseach leis an gcopail (is é ainm a bhí air ná Séadna).
Tá sé caighdeánach. Its a language. There is more than one way to say it. |
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Domhnall
Member
Username: Domhnall
Post Number: 274
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 11:48 am: |
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"I have learnt at Coleraine University (Ulster) "
Tá Gaeilge ag 23% de mhuintir Iarthar Bhéal Feirste agus ag 16% de mhuintir Chathair Doire.
Sin i bhfad níos mó ná mar a cheapas ;)
Ar an drochuair níl mórán Aontaithe ina measc ;(
Ní Síocháin Go Saoirse.
Is í slánú na Gaeilge athghabháil na Saoirse
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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 520
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 03:05 pm: |
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I realize that I just used "ná" in a sentence in the Halloween thread: Séard a rinne siad ná iad a chlúdach i gcré agus a róstadh ar an ngríosach. You could drop the "ná", but I think the resulting sentence would sound ciotach. Ní bheadh an abairt gan "ná" chomh soiléir agus chomh héasca a léamh. But I suppose that by some dialectical lights the whole sentence might be a stylistic hodge-podge. Cuirimse an milleán ar na meáin, na nuachtáin go háirithe!  |
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