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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (November-December) » Archive through November 06, 2005 » Halloween « Previous Next »

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 502
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 03:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Oíche Shamhna, aka Halloween, is upon us in less than a week. Thesis: Halloween is a more profoundly Irish holiday than St. Patrick's Day. Discuss.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2317
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 03:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

True. St Patrick's Day is a nineteenth century invention.

Tá Samhain linn ó aimsir Phartalán!

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Robert
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 04:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

And does anyone notice how the old duckin' and swinging apples and all that is gone, and in it's stead is the American imported version (which is non eco-friendly what with all those rubber masks and so on)

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 263
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 04:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Brathann sé ar cad a chiallaíonn an focal "Irish"..
Robert tis the same for Easter, Cmas and OMG advent - - I'm sorry but advent calendars with chocolates inside the windows. Absolutely ridiculous and couldn't be further from the point!
All that happens nowadays is Naks throw bangers up cats behinds.. Never liked it.
Bring on Lá 'le Phádraig!

Ní Síocháin Go Saoirse.
Is í slánú na Gaeilge athghabháil na Saoirse

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 504
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 04:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The American version was both bobbing for apples and tipping over outhouses in the olden days. You don't need Americans to add the plastic flourishes. Thailand has a fall festival of lights called Loy Krathong that takes place on the night of the twelfth full moon of the year. Individuals and families make a small rafts decorated with flowers and topped by a flickering candle flame which they set adrift after dark on the waterways of Thailand. Traditionally these krathong were made of made of local, natural, biodegradable parts. Now, the morning after you instead find the ponds and canals clogged with bedraggled styrofoam rafts with as many plastic flowers as real ones. The Thais did all this to themselves by themselves. Americans don't know Loy Krathong from Boxing Day.

Anyone out there still do prognostication/divining rituals on Oíche Shamhna? That used to be a big element of the night.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2324
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 04:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Anyone out there still do prognostication/divining rituals on Oíche Shamhna?



Only for fun.

Must try some of them this year with the kids.

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 507
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 04:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tokens in the pudding!

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 267
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 05:43 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Boxing Day" Sin mo bhreithlá :)
I'll expect the bronntanas in the post ye?!
And it's called St.Stephens day in Ireland!!

Ní Síocháin Go Saoirse.
Is í slánú na Gaeilge athghabháil na Saoirse

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Dearg
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Username: Dearg

Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 06:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aren't all the major Christian holidays facades over the original holidays of the peoples they conquered? Someone told me that once.

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Mícheál
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Username: Mícheál

Post Number: 60
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 07:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

When I tell people how Halloween has its roots in Celtic culture (and aborbed into Christianity), they look at me with the same blank stare as when I tell them about Ireland having a language other than English. Many believe that Halloween has something to do with the Salem, Massachusetts, witch trials and the writings of Washington Irving. Today, it is even attributed to being another Hallmark Holiday shimmering with Peanuts characters. Of course, in the United States, Halloween is celebrated all the way from not at all to door-to-door trick or treating to block parties to elaborate costume events for kids of all ages. It is second in spending in our consumeristic society only to Christmas. Mischief night is popular with many youth while religiously minded folks bathe in its philosophical undertones. And we even tie it in with other autumnal happenings. Keene, New Hampshire, is in the Guiness Book of World records for having the most pumpkins in one place at this time of year. Since St. Patrick came to Ireland many years after the Celts, I would say that Halloween predates All Souls and Saints Days.

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Aaron
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Username: Aaron

Post Number: 29
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 08:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dearg, you're right. Just look at Christmas.

Avert your eyes, the Pagans have credit cards!!

Origionally Christmas celebrations were actually winter solstice celebrations, or a celebration of the "birthday of the new (years') sun". Some Christians, in trying to win over the pagans, built a Christian holiday on top of the pagan beliefs.

Some theorise that Christ was born in April, and I've also heard theories that he was born somewhere between April and September.

According to one calculation made by Philocalus in AD 354, Christ was crucified on March 25, which was his "birthday into Heaven." This became thought of as the day Christ was conceived on, based on an ancient Jewish belief that martyrs died on the day of their birth or conception, thus making his birthday nine months later: December 25th. The truth seems to be much different, but the result was Christ's Birthday being "calculated" as being on December 25, and thus a tradition gets started, and there we are.

There are other holidays and traditions, pagan and otherwise, that have gotten wrapped into Christmas, so what I've written here is by no means complete. It would seem to me that st. Nicholas's day, December 6th, has played a huge part in our modern concept of Christmas, too.

It seems clear that most holidays (excluding national holidays, of course), certainly Halloween, have been drastically changed as well.

(Message edited by aaron on October 25, 2005)

(Message edited by aaron on October 25, 2005)

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Aaron
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Username: Aaron

Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 08:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does anyone still call it "pooky night"?

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Mícheál
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Username: Mícheál

Post Number: 61
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

From the article on Halloween in the Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. ("cavaet emptor" i gcónaí)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween


Halloween is also called Pooky Night in some parts of Ireland, presumably named after the púca, a mischievous spirit.

...


Celtic observation of Samhain

In the Druidic religion of the ancient Celts, the new year began with the winter season of Samhain on November 1. Just as sundown meant the start of a new day, shorter days signified the start of the new year; therefore the harvest festival began every year on the night of October 31. Druids in the British Isles would light fires and offer sacrifices of crops. And as they danced around the fires, the season of the sun would pass and the season of Samhain would begin.

When the morning of November 1 arrived, the Druids would give an ember from their fires to each family who would then take it home to start a new cooking fire. These fires were intended to keep the homes warm and free from evil spirits such as "Sidhe" (pronounced "shee," most notable of which are the beán sidhe or banshees), because at this time of year it was believed that the invisible "gates" between this world and the spirit world were opened and free movement between both worlds was possible.

Bonfires played a large part in the festivities. Villagers cast the bones of the slaughtered cattle upon the flames; the word "bonfire" is thought to derive from these "bone fires." With the bonfire ablaze, the villagers extinguished all other fires. Each family then solemnly lit their hearth from the common flame, thus bonding the families of the village together. Hundreds of fires are still lit each year in Ireland on Halloween night.

Neopagans have adopted celebration of the sabbat of Samhain on Halloween, as well as also taking part in secular Halloween activities.

...

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 510
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 12:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dúirt Domhnall:
quote:

I'll expect the bronntanas in the post ye?!
And it's called St.Stephens day in Ireland!!

Cúpla dreoilín marbh, an bhfuair tú é sin riamh mar fhéirín? Ohp! That was in Bad Taste. (Speaking of taste, an bhfuil siad inite?)

(Message edited by dennis on October 26, 2005)

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Lucy.
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 05:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Peel an apple without breaking the strand. Toss it over your left shoulder and it will show the initial of the one you'll wed

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 277
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 12:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Mmmmm .. Ba chóir duit bheith id chócaire a Dhennis!

Aonghus that thread was edited. You have your opinions i have mine - Tis time to put our behind ár nGrá don Ghaeilge. I'll do everything i can to revitalise Gaeilge by whatever ways i think will help and i'm sure you'll do the same. End of debate Caomhín (!)

Ní Síocháin Go Saoirse.
Is í slánú na Gaeilge athghabháil na Saoirse

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 517
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 02:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Ba chóir duit bheith id chócaire a Dhennis!

Tá ainm na cócaireachta orm i measc mo chairde. :-)

So, léigh mé an chaibidil "Oíche Shamhna" in Fiche Bliain ag Fás anois díreach. Mharaigh na daoine óga céad smólach an oíche sin, agus bhí rósta mór acu. Níor ith mise éan níos lú ná quail riamh. Dúirt m'athair liom nuair a bhí mé i mo ghasúr, áfach, go ndéanadh seisean agus a chomrádaite óga, agus iad ina ngasúr, go ndéanfaidís seilg ar na héin bheaga. Níor phrioc siad an clúmh díobh. Séard a rinne siad ná iad a chlúdach i gcré agus a róstadh ar an ngríosach. Thagadh an clúmh díobh leis an gcréafóg chrua dhóite nuair a bhí siad réidh.

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Dearg
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Username: Dearg

Post Number: 87
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 07:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

If you wanted to create a Halloween card as Gaeilge, what would it say? (Hmmm, is that subjunctive? Haven't learned that yet!)

Oíche Shamhna áthas ort ??

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Liz
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Username: Liz

Post Number: 24
Registered: 07-2005


Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 08:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sorry for the long post, but I have to tell about our attempt to visit Uaigh na gCat near Tulsk in Co. Roscommon in August. This cave is said to be the gateway to the Otherworld where the spirits come out on Halloween.

We went to Cruachan Aí because it was between Strokestown Park and Sligo, so I thought it would make a good stop.

Rath Cruachán is close to the road and there is a graveled parking area in front of it, but the gate was nailed shut and there was an electric fence strung across it so we figured somebody didn't want us in there.

This didn't matter because we were able to walk up on Rath Mór and Rath Beag, which are nicely preserved earth mounds.

This link looks like the map we got at the Cruachán Aí visitor center (the people in Tulsk were very friendly and helpful). We really liked Tulsk.

http://www.gsi.ie/staffhome/macdermc/roscommon/owenygat.htm

Notice it looks like a road goes to Uaigh na gCat. I have been there and I can tell you that this road does not exist, even if you take into consideration the liberal Irish definition of what constitutes a "road".

We drove back and forth three times looking for this path or road. Rath na dTarb was easily found and was covered with grazing cows.

Across from Rath na dTarb was some farm machinery parked behind a farmer's closed metal gate. Since the map makes it look like the path to Uaigh na gCat is farther down the road we continued driving. But we saw no crossroad or even a path coming off to the left for quite a while. When we did see a road the field was posted "No Trespassing" and "Beware of the Bull" (and we could see the bull who didn't look too friendly.) Although several of the raths were signposted, the cave was not.

Is there anyone else who has been in the vicinity who has a different story to tell?

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 521
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 10:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Maidir le Uaigh na gCat, Liz, an bhfaca tú na pictiúir dheasa ag http://www.gsi.ie/staffhome/macdermc/roscommon/owenygat.htm ? Níor mhaith liomsa bheith ann i lár na hoíche!

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 522
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 12:25 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

a Halloween card as Gaeilge, what would it say?

Ceist mhaith! Hmmm... The usual default is "Beannachtaí X chugat (or agat -- or duit or ort, too -- sometimes it seems like a prepositional free-for-all!) X will be the name of the day or festival: Beannachtaí na Nollag, na Féile Pádraig, etc. And then there's the all-purpose Beannachtaí an Lae. So, Beannachtaí Oíche Shamhna is possible, but seems a bit anodyne, a little tame. But hey, most Halloween cards are humorous, with messages like "Na trí dhóigh is fearr le scanradh a sheachaint ar Oíche Shamhna: (a) ná déan siúlóid i reilig; (b) ná léigh rud ar bith le Stephen King; agus (c) ná breathnaigh sa scáthán. :-)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2358
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 06:14 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is maith liom iad sin, a Dennis.

Céard faoi "Oíche Shamhna faoi sceoin agat" - May you have a terrifying halloween?

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Dearg
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Username: Dearg

Post Number: 88
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 09:05 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Aonghus,

Is maith liom!

Agus GRMA, a Dhennis.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2364
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 09:11 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is cosúil gur litrigh mé mí-cheart é:

scéin [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
scanradh uafásach, sceimhle; dearcadh fiáin sna súile; fiántas.

atá sa bhFoclóir Beag; theip orm teacht ar sceoin, cé go bhfuil an leabhar seo ann:

http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=3575

"Sceoin sa Bhoireann"

A Ghramadoirí, an ann don focal?

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Paul
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Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 11:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A chairde, Léigh me an leabhar seo
cúpla bliain ó shin agus bhí sé ar fheabhas:
"The Hallowed Eve: Dimensions of Culture in a Calendar Festival in Northern Ireland (Irish Literature, History and Culture)" by Jack Santino. Tá sé le fáil ag Amazon.com, ach fuair mo leabharlann áitiúl cóip dom...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0813120810/002-9445449-1589639?v=glance&n=28315 5&n=507846&s=books&v=glance

Liz agus Dennis:
Go raibh maith agaibh as na scéalta faoi Uaigh na gCat.
A thiarcais! Tá orm dul lá amhain!

Paul

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 524
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 12:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Leagan malartach de "scéin" is ea "sceoin" de réir FGB. "Sceoin" is historically the dative of "scéin". The dative usurping the place of the nominative is an old, old story in Irish, already under way in Old Irish.

Another possible greeting for Halloween: Athbhliain faoi Shéan! After all, November 1st was the first day of a new year under the old system. ;-)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2369
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 03:59 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

GRMA Dennis, bhí mearbhall ag teacht orm. Níl an leagan iomlán de FGB agam (fós).

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2376
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 10:29 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Pisreoga na Samhna anseo
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0111&L=seanchas-l&P=1098

fuair mé tré seo é

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaeilge/feilte/

Tá eolas breise ansin.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2377
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 10:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá Eachtra Nerai, maille aistriú Liz an Tí seo air, anseo;

http://www.univie.ac.at/indogermanistik/download/texte/Echtrae_Nerai.htm#g

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 528
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 12:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"bhí amhrán a' gabháil leis go dtugaidís An Mascalach air"
(ón gcéad nasc thuas a thug Aonghus dúinn)

There is a song of the same sort, originally reported in An Claidheamh Soluis (December 15, 1906), from Ring, Co. Waterford. Here it is with modern spelling. Imagine satisfying trick-or-treaters with bread and butter and glass of milk!

Anocht Oíche Shamhna,
a Mhongo Mango.
Sop ins na fuinneogaibh;
dúntar na doirse.
Éirigh id shuí, a bhean an tí.
Téirigh siar go banúil,
tar aniar go flaithiúil.
Tabhair leat ceapaire aráin agus ime
ar dhath do leacain fhéin;
a mbeidh léim ghiorria dhe aoirde ann
agus coiscéim choiligh dhe im air.
Tabhair chugham peigín de bhainne
righin, mín, milis a mbeidh leamhnacht
’na chosa agus uachtar ’na mhullaigh;
go mbeidh sé ag imeacht ’na chnocaibh
agus ag teacht 'na shléibhtibh,
agus ba dhóigh leat go dtachtfadh sé mé,
agus mo chreach fhada níor bhaol dom.

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Cailindoll
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Username: Cailindoll

Post Number: 117
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 10:46 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post


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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 532
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 08:30 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's a much simpler Oíche Shamhna ditty, sung to the tune of "Frère Jacques":

Oíche Shamhna, Oíche Shamhna,
báirín breac, báirín breac,
úlla agus cnónna, úlla agus cnónna,
báirin breac, báirín breac.

Is the best báirín breac a yeast bread or a soda bread? Tuairim láidir ag éinne?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2382
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 06:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Neither.

Rinne mé báirín breac le mo mhac. Na torthaí a chuir i dtae fuar thar oíche an rún!

We used baking powder.

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Cailindoll
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Username: Cailindoll

Post Number: 118
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 10:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá sé i bhfad níos taitneamhach le giosta, a A agus soaking them in HOT tea is even better. Agus is é 1 Tblspúnóg lemon extract an fíor rún. An oideas is fearr liom ar lth 401-2 i leabhar darb ainm How to Bake, ach ochón mo leabharsa i bhfad uaimse.

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/homepage.html/102-7802724-3868161]

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Fearn
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Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 10:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Rinne mé báirín breac le mo mhac"

A tharcais! Nach bhfuil dlíthe in Éirinn i gcoinne mí-úsáid is brúidiúlacht ? ;)

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 534
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 10:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ar chuir sibh fáinne ann?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2385
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 12:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ní raibh fáinne againn, faraor. Easpa eagar.

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 283
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 05:30 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá duine des na daoine im rangsa ina Pagan. Bhí sí ag Teamhrach aréir.
Tháinig páistí chuig mo dhoras agus dúirt siad ;
"Trick or treat trick give us something good to eat if you dont we dont care we'll pull down your underwear"
I was in stitches for bout an hour.. :)
Not to say they got the good milseáin!

Ní Síocháin Go Saoirse.
Is í slánú na Gaeilge athghabháil na Saoirse



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