There are a number of fans of Seanchló on the board.

Peadar Ó Gríofa has been using it using the \ font { formatting tag - any chance you could put together a tag similar to \ greek to make that easier?

And for extra marks give us something to cut and paste the lenited consonants from!

Cé mhéad agaibh a fheiceann é seo mar chló gaelach?

Chan fheicimse féin é. Tchím Times New Roman mór ina áit.

Is fearr liom Rudhraigheacht nó Twomey nó Cló Gaelach ná Seanchló ;-)

Caithfidh tú Bunchló Ársa a bheith agat, agus ar do ríomhaire, len é fheiscint:

http://www.fainne.org/gaelchlo/bunars.html

Ceart go leor. Ní hé 'n cló darb ainm "Seanchló" a bhí i gceist agat mar sin ach an cló Gaelach go ginearálta... Shuiteáil mé Bunchló ársa ar mo ríomhaire 's anois tchím d'abairt sa chló sin. Ach scríobh tú h srl in áit ponc a chur os cionn na gconsan... an d'aon ghnoithe a rinn tú sin nó an bhfuil sé deacair na consain sin a scríobh le méarchlár normálta?

Féach mo cheist ar Pheadar thíos. Tá fuascailt na deacrachta ansin - ach ní liomsa an ríomhaire seo!

http://www.daltai.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/daltai/discus/show.pl?tpc=21&post=29454#PO ST29454

quote:

Caithfidh tú Bunchló Ársa a bheith agat

An féidir é a shuiteáil ar Mac OS X (10.3.9) ?

Inglés, por favor? ;)

¿Donde está tu diccionario? ;-)

quote:

An féidir é a shuiteáil ar Mac OS X (10.3.9) ?

No sé. Puede ser. No sé nada del hijo diez.

Windows Character Map codes for Vincent Morley's Bunchló fonts:

Alt + 0162	¢
Alt + 0161	¡
Alt + 0165	¥
Alt + 0164	¤
Alt + 0171	«
Alt + 0166	¦
Alt + 0177	±
Alt + 0176	°
Alt + 0179	³
Alt + 0178	²
Alt + 0181	µ
Alt + 0180	´
Alt + 0185	¹
Alt + 0183	·
Alt + 0191	¿
Alt + 0187	»
Alt + 0247	÷
Alt + 0215	×

If all visitors to the clár plé could see messages containing cló Gaelach, I'd be in favour of having it around from time to time. If only those who go to extra lengths could see it, I'd rather not mess with it.

Ideally the style would replace cló gaelach with times new roman etc - pretty much what happens now, but that would preclude the use of lenited consonants, without script magic.

Cad is script magic ann? Draíocht nó ríomhchlár?

{quote}
¿Donde está tu diccionario? ;-)
{/quote}

Níl mo fhoclóir poca ag obair. Tá mé (mise?) ag obair. (shhhhhh!)

(Actually, "ag obair" is wrong, 'cause that's saying that my pocket dictionary "is working" rather than "is at (my) work(place)". Bhfuel, I tried.)

So the gist of the conversation is that some people want to use a font with the old dotted-consonant characters on this message board, but not everyone has the font?

I've added Bunchló as an optional font declaration for the message areas of the board. The change should be noticeable, from this point on for those who have Bunchló installed. If not, please let me know.

Should Bunchló specific character encodings prove to make the text of messages unreadable for those without the font, I'll remove it and see if I create character formatting tags for the board to achieve the same thing. Fair warning: my past attempts to create similar tags have proved to be problematic due to the vagaries of text encoding on the Web.


Caoimhín

Buíochas, Caoimhín.

Perhaps Dennis could nominate an equivalent Mac font?

Dennis, have you had any luck on the Mac?

On the Mac, I have Everson Typography's "Ceanannas" font. It's gorgeous. I hope it works in Safari, because other apps don't seem to work perfectly with it.

I can go into Adobe InDesign CS and, in the Glyphs palette, I can enter any character I want including the letters with the dots on them, the funky 's' and 'r', the funky ampersand (Tirolian something-or-other), etc.

However, if I follow Everson's directions on using the Irish Extended keyboard definition (where Opt+W and then the consonant will result in the consonant with a dot above it) only works for 'c' and 'g'. I think it's a problem with InDesign, though, because if I open the OS X graphical keyboard diagram, the proper letters (dotted) show up after I enter the Opt+W. I'm on OS X Tiger (10.4.2) by the way.

If I use Word, then Word will never put the dots above any consonant.

If I use Apple Pages, then 'c' and 'g' work, but any other consonant gets a dot above it but it is displayed in an Arial-like font (which clashes horribly with the beautiful Ceanannas).

I have not tried any browsers (Firefox or Safari), so maybe they're better at displaying the characters as opposed to trying to edit with them.

Hi Dearg,

I haven't had any luck because I haven't made any effort! ;-) Years of coming up against incompatibilities and enduring software tantrums have me "much bitten and many times shy". Plus, your account of your own adventures doesn't do much to encourage me. BTW, I agree that Everson's fonts are extremely well done. One of the biggest problems with the free ones is aesthetic: they don't pay enough attention to how the letters fit together in words; that it, the kerning and spacing. Oh, and that funny "and" sign that looks like a 7 is a Tironian note (a "nota" in Latin, and "nod" in Irish), named after M. Tullius Tiro, who invented a series of Latin shorthand conventions. For more, see: http://quidnunc.net/~garyi/noda/notae.html

Caoimhín,

I have Bunchló on my machine at home, but I don't see any difference. How do optional fonts come into play?

Taim ró fhalsa é seo a dhéanamh gach uair!

I am not sure Aonghus. I only had time to test it on Windows XP and OS 10.3.9 and it worked on both (good news for Dennis).

Were you ever able to see it?

Caoimhín

"I have Bunchló on my machine at home, but I don't see any difference."

I see it all over the place today: whole threads (this one and others) in which Bunchló now appears not to be an optional font, but the default font.

A Dhennis,

Go raibh maith agat. Tiro*n*ian, gotcha! Always wondered what that was about.

After much investigation and help on Apple's forums today, I discovered that Everson's fonts are, oddly enough, not Unicode. They are still coded in the Mac Gaelic Roman character set even on (Unicode-ready) OS X.

All you have to do is use the Keyboard Viewer to see how they map. He also has a list on his web site. Oh, and his fonts are on sale (30% off for Mac & Windows) until 01 Nov 2005 at myfonts.com.

http://www.evertype.com/celtscript/ceanannas.html

Slán agat.

This is a good resource I found out about today:

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/mearchlar/fonts.htm

quote:

Were you ever able to see it?

I can see Peadars specific messages.

However, I use Firefox at home. I'll try tomorrow with IE at home, that may be it.

My preference would still be for a \gaelach tag in the style of \greek, rather than turning the whole board.

(Message edited by aonghus on October 27, 2005)

i don't, as those most can read the font, and those unaccustomed to using a dot séimhiú will simply use an h with the font.

I always thought the "Gaeilge" font was better than anything from that site




(Message edited by antaine on October 27, 2005)

Can anyone explain why I am mostly see the Gaelic font in the postings, but am not seeing it in Larry's above posting nor in the page that lists the topics? I also have selected the largest view to make the font more clear for reading, which probably has more to do with aging eyes than with the font itself. Can anyone tell me how to change the setting if I do not wish to view it any longer? GRMA.

a Mhícháil,

There is a times new roman font tag that proceeds Larry's post, hence the non-Bunchló type face.

As for why you are not seeing Bunchló elsewhere, I set the Bunchló font declaration for the text of messages only.

If you no longer wish to see message text in the Bunchló font, I am pretty sure that you'll have to remove Bunchló from your fonts folder (WIndows) or disable it using Font Book on a Mac. Alternatively, you can select your own stylesheet, if your browser supports that option.

However, I would hold off on going to any great length to work around the font (with the exception of increasing your text size) for a day or two. As I mentioned above, if those on the board report problems with the font's use, I'll disable it and try to come up with a less invasive soltution along the line of what Aonghus originally proposed.

Thanks for the input.

Caoimhín

(Message edited by caoimhín on October 27, 2005)

Larry,

quote:

However, do you not think that the use of a Gaelic font as the default is going to deter the occasional visitor to this site?

Only those with Bunchló already installed on their sytem will be able to see it. Without Bunchló, they'll see Times New Roman.

However, your point is well taken. As I mentioned above, if use of the font proves to be a problem, I'll try and find a better solution.

Caoimhín

Sorry Caoimhín - I didn't see your response to Micheál's query.

quote:

Only those with Bunchló already installed on their sytem will be able to see it. Without Bunchló, they'll see Times New Roman.

I didn't realise that! Which just goes to illustrate how much of a dinosaur I am when it comes to computers :-)

[Paste, click, click. Oops, wrong thread. Delete, delete, click, click.]

(Message edited by Peadar Ó Gríofa on October 27, 2005)

if anyone figures out how to get it to work with firefox, let me know...shame to not be able to use a gaeilge web browser to read gaeilge messages...

For the record, it works for me with IE.

I suspect the alternative font list is not quite standard HTML, and therefore works with IE, but not with Firefox which applies the standard more strictly.

But using the font tag works, as does the greek tag.

This ought to be in Bunchló Ársa in Firefox

I find the Bunchló quite small - I put a size increase tag around the one I put in just now.

Perhaps a \gaelach tag would be better, Caoimhín? That would allow you to increase the size too.

no, it shows up in IE but not firefox.

Dúirt Aonghus:

quote:

Perhaps a \gaelach tag would be better, Caoimhín?

Bheinnse i bhfách leis sin.

For me it works with firefox, I just put it in the Fonts Folder under Windows, restarted Firefox, and here it is.

well, it's in my fonts folder, but not showing up in firefox. i'm running osX.3.

Something has changed. I changed nothing, but now I see the bunchló with Firefox (on Windows XP)!

Caoimhín wrote:

quote:

I only had time to test it on Windows XP and OS 10.3.9 and it worked on both (good news for Dennis).

I just went to Morley's site and clicked on "bun-t.zip". Some dialog boxes then zipped past on the screen, suggesting that the package had been downloaded. But even after restarting my Mac, I don't see cló Gaelach on the clár plé. Should I have chosen bungc-t.zip instead? Or done something else or something further to install that font on the Mac? Thanks.

Dennis,

I had a bit of difficulty with the Bunchló fonts I downloaded from Morley's site, though the problem may lie with my OS rather than with the fonts themselves. However, I found success with the Bunchló fonts found on fainne.org:

http://www.fainne.org/gaelchlo/bun-t.zip
http://www.fainne.org/gaelchlo/bunt-t.zip
http://www.fainne.org/gaelchlo/bunag-t.zip
http://www.fainne.org/gaelchlo/bunatg-t.zip

The zipped file(s) should decompress to your desktop.

Before proceeding further, I recommend that you download and install "OKFont", which is a freeware font utility for OS X that fixes font permissions. (You may be able to omit this step, but It's safer not to). OKFont is available from:

http://www.supercustomized.com/

Once you download OKFont, drag the application to your Utilities folder on your hard drive (/Applications/Utilities.)

Now locate the Bunchló folder on your desktop and drag the .ttf file located therein to the OKFont application icon. A dialogue box will appear asking if you want to change the permissions on the font. Click "Yes." Repeat this step for every Bunchló variant that you want to install.

Once that's done, select a .ttf file that you want to install (from the folders on your desktop) and double click the font icon, e.g., "bun.ttf". Font Book will launch and present you with a dialogue box asking if you want to install the font. Click "Install font" and you're done. Repeat as necessary to install additional fonts.

You should now be able to see Bunchló on those messages on the board that use it.

Caoimhín

(Message edited by Caoimhín on October 30, 2005)

Vincent Morley is the person behind fainne.org and the fonts there. So perhaps it was an out of date version that you were trying before?

Worse than that.

I see that Vincent Morley's personal site links to fainne.org for Bunchló, so the font that I had trouble with had to come from some other site.

Sorry for the confusion.

Caoimhín

tried the fontok thing with all those zipped files...still no dice... )-;

Antaine,

try reading this article from Adobe. Item number six may be of particular use to you.

http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/327791.html

Also, you might want to try and clear your font cache. Instructions for doing so (via Terminal) can be found here:

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20020510091542426

(Be careful though. rm -f will remove everything in the selected folder without prompting. Make sure you are in /System/Library/Caches/ before proceeding.)

If you prefer a GUI approach to clearing your font cache, try Onyx, which is a free OS X all-purpose utility:

http://www.titanium.free.fr/pgs/english.html

Caoimhín

(Message edited by Caoimhín on November 01, 2005)