mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (September-October) » Archive through October 21, 2005 » Eurotrash and /R'/ « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 09:18 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

One of the lecturers in this college here is from Holland and he has that Eurotrash accent.

His first name is Rik and while I have not heard him now to compare, as I do not be in his class, from memory he seems to say Rik a lot like /R'ik/.

Lughaidh or Max, would you know about this?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 475
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:34 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cad is "Eurotrash" ann?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 278
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Exactly...define "Euro Trash"...sounds like it's bordering on some kind of "ism"....

Not trying to start anything...just trying to make sure we all play by the same rules. Simple comments by some participants having been taken fully out of context by others thereby having led to some rather nasty exchanges and all.... ;)

Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jonas
Member
Username: Jonas

Post Number: 813
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 03:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I was wondering the same thing, never heard the expression before.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 811
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 03:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It's the accent with which a German or Danish person (typically) speaks English. "Eurotrash" is a reference to the TV show called "Eurotrash", whose presenter spoke like so.

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jonas
Member
Username: Jonas

Post Number: 815
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 04:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Persönlich verstehe ich überhaupt nicht warum ein Deutscher Englisch sprechen sollte. Viel mehr Leute in Europa sprichen Deutsch als Englisch, so es wäre natürlicher, dass die Engländern Deutsch lernen sollten.

Was ist Englisch eigentlich? Nichts mehr als pidgin-Deutsch. Lassen die Engländern eine richtige Sprache lernen, und danach können wir ihre Aussprache Engländer-Scheisse nennen... :-)

(In short: Since English is nothing but a pidgin-version of German, the English could as well learn real German instead.)

And by the way, German and French should be the official languages of the EU. :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 478
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 04:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Nichts mehr als pidgin-Deutsch.

Ní fíor! Pidgin Gearmáinis + Fraincis atá ann.
quote:

German and French should be the official languages of the EU.

Agus seo agat é, an Béarla: meascán díobh beirt in aon teanga amháin, móide croitheadh maith de Ghréigis agus Laidin le snas a chur air! :-)

Ach is och, Jonas, is trua gur fusa Gearmáinis a fháil uait ná Gaeilge bhinn bhlasta. :-\

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jonas
Member
Username: Jonas

Post Number: 816
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 05:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gabh mo leithscéal ó chroí, a chara! Scríobh Fear_na_mbróg go dtugtar "Eurotrash" ar an gcaoi a labhríonn na Gearmáinise Béarla, agus is é sin an t-aon réasún amháin a scriobhas as Gearmáinis.

Mar gheall ar teanga oifigiúil, bheinn féin ana-shásta an teanga san a dheanamh as Gaelainn. :-) Ach ceart go leor, bheinn sásta le gach aon teanga seachas Béarla...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 07:33 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Éistigí!,
there was no -isms nor racism involved...

'Eurotrash accent' is a term known in Ireland and UK for the sort of accent that is Dutch/Belgian border trying to speak English, and sometimes means a German too, but is mostly the above.

It is the cliché 'brogue' of north west Dutch people when they are imitated for good natured comedy reasons, but not for abusive reasons

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 280
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 10:05 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I dunno....I found it a bit offensive. Euro...means european to me...trash...pretty straightforward derogatory comment there.

But...if it's OK, then I guess it's OK. Just seems like you're singling out a specific group of people (Dutch/Belgian) and making fun of how they speak english.

But hey, if you're OK with it, then I gues that's well...OK.

Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 10:18 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It has no connotations of inferiority AT ALL. 'Trash' has no meaning in the word. It is considered 'tight' to have the accent in person, and one would have a higher chance of scoring with it than without it, so certainly not a cause for embarresment.

I used it as a short hand, but it seems too many people here are too old/American/not down with classics like Eurotrash to get it. I also think it has been changed in meaning a little to become synonoumous with the accent, as there are people who get the term, but did not know the show. Also, it does not include the cliche German accent, but some Western varieties near the Belgian and Dutch borders.

Anyway, maybe on second thoughts, the particualar lecturer is too retroflex on his r to be /R'/, but I ahve heard some poeple who are very like it.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jonas
Member
Username: Jonas

Post Number: 818
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 10:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"It has no connotations of inferiority AT ALL."

That might very well be the case, I was just wondering how a Dutch speaking person would take it.

"I used it as a short hand, but it seems too many people here are too old/American/not down with classics like Eurotrash to get it."

I guess Lughaidh, Max and myself are all under 30, we're not American and not that old. :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 281
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 10:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"...too old/American/not down with classics..."

Ageism, anti-Americanism and....well, not sure what the last one is.. ;)

Just trying to keep you intellectually honest, my friend.

If Euro-trash is an acceptable term, then fine. I'm not familiar with it but will log it in as an OK term to use.

Wonder how it'll fly if I use it in a pub on the Dutch border? Would it get a similar response to the term "bog-trotter" in an Irish pub?

Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Chris_c
Member
Username: Chris_c

Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 12:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"but it seems too many people here are too old/American/not down with classics like Eurotrash to get it"

Would it be possible to keep the most insensitive of the comments to yourself?

I suppose not... now you've insulted four groups; why stop there, you're pretty good at it. How about some racial slurs too?

How many feet do you have to put in your mouth?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 12:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I am aware that 'old' sounded derogatory, but it a constraint not related to biological aging, but to a potential demographic cohort, such as those who might have watched the said show, and would most likely have been from 14 to 30 in the mid-nineties when it first came on air, and are now 24 to 40. It could equally be argued I was ageist vs children and the then unborn, the yet to be reincarnated, those souls from other star systems yet to incarnate (if you are new age), those animal and vegetable souls yet to evolve high enough to take human incarnation (if you are into Rudolph Steiner). And so on (with tongue in cheek).

Anti-American? Hardly! There are many Americans here, and few get channel 4 or other stations that either used to show it or will show the new format coming out. I would post a link, but it would be somewhat OT I think.

"Would it get a similar response to the term "bog-trotter" in an Irish pub?"

As I said, it is not derogatory, but is a term for a style of speaking that exists more as a cliché, than as a real linguistic cohort. Nobody is or can be called 'eurotrash' as it was never a term of abuse. As I said, 'trash' has no semantic value in the word, as it was borrowed from the TV show title, but has since come to mean something a little wider in scope. Do a search on the word, and you will see the berth of it, such that not everyone is sure what it originally referred to, or what it means now.

Bog-trotter may have once been a racist slur to describe Irish people, but now is used by Dubliners to refer to country people, but is not racist by any means. On the Dutch border, they would probebly not know what you are taling about. Indeed rural Dutch areas can be quite racist, and they might even think you were refering to Muslims or Turks.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

TSJ
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 02:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

" it has no connotations of inferiority at all "

Just who do you think you are kidding?

Any Irish person who has ever lived in England knows from personal experience what it is like to be made fun of because of the way they pronounce English. We are supposed to laugh and take it as a joke but it is quite obvious that it is a not so subtile put down at the same time. A suggestion of inferiority, you might say. However, as this often happens on a daily basis year after year it becomes somewhat tiresome. If anyone thinks that this is the exception rather than the rule, then I beg to differ. I maintain that this attitude is widespread. How else can one explain why so many Irish people nowadays are trying to get rid of their Irish accent in order to replace it with a phony Oxford accent. "No connotations of inferiority at all ? Please think again. Has anyone ever noticed that when the Irish do something they are made fun of and criticized for it but when foreigners do the very same thing they receive praise? Incidentally, Webster's English Dictionary gives the following definitions for the the word trash: - Junk, rubbish, inferior, worthless, dregs. Not exactly complimentary. When did it change its meaning ? Trash is garbage and I have never heard it used with a neutral tone. Can Euro-trash then be an acceptable term? Acceptable for what purpose?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 03:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Bog-trotter may have once been a racist slur to describe Irish people, but now is used by Dubliners to refer to country people"

Notice I said in Ireland. If a Dubliner were to refer to me as a bog-trotter directly, he would be abusive, but they tend not to do that. It is mostly for talk among themselves. The term 'bogger' is now the most current term, and is even lighter, used by country people too. Where I come from it is used to refer to those who have the most Hiberno of pronounciations.

So I guess, you can say there is a dynamic of inferior/superior about the term, at least in its historical usage, but this has been lessened in contemporary Ireland.

Of course, it would be unacceptable to have such a slur directed ones way by an English, but thankfully I won't be working in England (thanks to Mr Celtic Tiger). I'm told by Irish and international students who studied with both nationalities in England, that English people assume apriori that the cartoon Paddy is true, and are quite surprised when they hear technical information coming from the mouths of such an 'ape'. A friend of mine who is an aeronautical engineer and achived a first in his masters in southhampton, points out it was the asians,europeans and irish who got the top scores. The english were rarely in the top half.

I am aware of the English arrogance such that on live TV, an announcer could make a joke about whiskey and alcoholic Irishmen on channel 4 racing, and get away with it. Now, it was someone else who was watching it, but why are such race meeting filled with eegits from Ireland? Anyone here who can get english TV, can see that all Irish jockies have an absolutly daft put-on brogue, like Darby O Gill, and that, it would seem is down to speaking like Paddy is expected to speak.

Most newspapers in Dublin are English dailies; just over half are sold in the same form as in England, with NO irish news. I recall one poster saying here they know of one shop which never sells Irish papers. Period. I have seen one such shop too. I dont know if it is the same one.

For the last time, 'eurotrash' only occurs as I mean it in the phrase 'eurotrash accent'. There is no such hing as 'euro-trash'. If there is, I did not make it up.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Djwebb2002
Member
Username: Djwebb2002

Post Number: 122
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 03:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Let me add my 2 Eurocents. English people LOVE Irish accents. It is not a putdown when English people comment on Irish accents. Maybe some Irish people with chips on their shoulders choose to interpret it as an insult, but it is not. We LOVE the Irish.

There is only one stereotype that happens to be frequently true, and that is of the large Irish family with many children moving into the area and lowering the tone by their behaviour. But I am sure such people are not actually appreciated in Ireland either, and there are English neighbours from hell too. All the gypsies in England at the moment seem to be from Ireland.

But: it is absolutely false to claim that English people try to put Irish people down.



©Daltaí na Gaeilge