Some interesting information out of Donegal.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1481654&issue_id=130 91

Patrick,
that article requires registration. Could you give us the gist of it? (Don't copy & paste it here, just summarise it)

I posted links some time ago to articles in Irish about local concerns about too many holiday homes.

Sorry about that. Here is the gist of the article.

The article states that Irish speakers must be allocated most houses in a new development in Donegal under a planning decision.

It was decided that 60pc of a 27-house scheme in the North Donegal Gaeltacht of Falcarragh must be occupied by Irish speakers.

It wsa seen as a test case (an appeal by Udaras) and a message to developers that if development is to go ahead in the Gaeltacht area it must protect the Irish language.

Census figures show 73pc of people in the Falcarragh area speak Irish on a daily basis.

I posted a similar story here

http://www.daltai.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/daltai/discus/show.pl?tpc=20&post=28438#PO ST28438

If a census finds 20% of people in a parish in Dublin are non national, should all housing be tailored to refelct the linguistic make up of the area? Chinese only hosues, Slavic only houses etc.

It would be more sensible to have 100% of houses Irish only

If there's 73% Irish use, why is there only 60% of houses being made Irish-only? It should be 100% Irish, since it's in the Gaeltacht, like they did in Galway.

quote:

like they did in Galway.

They didn't. They followed the same percentage rules.

I think you'll find the 60% is the closest they could get to 73% give the actual number of houses.

I wonder where does that census about irish speakers in Falcarragh come from. I was there once or twice, I haven't heard any word of Irish between people. I went to buy some biscuits in a shop there, and i said "go raibh maith agat" to the cashier and she looked at me as if i spoke Hebrew. I heard from my old teacher that Irish was almost dead in Falcarragh: most people know it but have stopped to speak it. One exception: a Tory-Islanders "colony" in Falcarragh: these are people who still speak Irish together.

(Message edited by lughaidh on October 06, 2005)

This raises all sorts of questions. Clearly the rules can only apply to the first purchasers or residents? What happens when those residents move on or sell up? Are they permitted to sell to English-speakers?

I believe there is a 15 year clause applied to the sales contract. i.e for those 15 years, if you sell, the condition must be passed on.

The census figures come from self reporting in the 2002 census.
In the absence of a linguistic study....

I agree with Lughaidh, I've been in Falcarragh and found it to an almost completely English-speaking town.

But these kind of rules may help change that.

The problem is that if we draw the Gaeltacht boundaries too strictly, the decline will accelerate.

At the moment the breac Gaeltachtaí act as a kind of buffer zone, especially if these rules are applied.

It also gives the people in those areas who speak and love the language the incentive and tools to put community schemes in place to strengthen language use.

I haven't been to Falcarragh since the mid nineties - but I did my shopping partly in Irish then (because I heard the shopkeeper speak Irish).

http://www.pobail.ie/ie/AnGhaeltacht/

quote:

Is tasc lárnach de chuid na Roinne forbairt gheilleagrach, fhisiciúil agus shóisialta a chur chun cinn i gCeantair Ghaeltachta agus an Ghaeilge a láidriú mar phríomh theanga an phobail sa Ghaeltacht, go háirithe i dtéarmaí an teanga a thabhairt ar aghaidh ó ghlúin go glúin.

Agusín: eolas ar searmanais eaglasta as Gaeilge i nDeoise Rath Botha

http://www.raphoediocese.com/gaeltachtai.htm

(Message edited by mickrua on October 07, 2005)

This rules will do nothing. Why would people start speaking Irish if they didn't before. It sounds like they have Irish but don't speak it, they're just using it to get a house so. In UCC where I am now, the Ionad Cónaithe Gaeilge is inhabited by people who don't speak Irish regularly, just used their knowledge of it to get housing.

Even if they did speak, they wouldn't speak it in a community of Irish and English speakers. They're not gonna be ignorant and speak Irish around non-Irish speakers, so then no Irish will be spoken and it'll eventually become easier for them to speak English amongst themselves.

"They're not gonna be ignorant and speak Irish around non-Irish speakers"

Why is that ignorant???

Good point Jonas,
Considering the overwhelming majority of English speakers don't even make the slightest effort to learn a few words of the local language when 'abroad'. I'd say it's time to be ignorant, if the English speakers can't speak Irish in these small areas then they had better enrol onto a course or get a phrasebook double quick.
It's pride not ignorance to expect this.

(Message edited by Asarlaí on October 07, 2005)

Is cosúil go bhfuil an creideamh ann fós gur daoine tiubha a labharíonn an Ghaeilge,táim ag déanamh tagairt do thuairimí Dalta ós cionn seo.Úsáidfidh daoine gach cleas ar domhan le h-aghaidh teach a fháil i n-áit a rachaidh an luach in airde. Níl suim an mhadaidh acu i nGaeilge níl ann ach dall na mullóg a chur ar na h-údaráis le h-aghaidh cead tógála a fháil.Is gairid anois go gtabharfar an Rialtas chun cúirte /Cúirt na h-Eorpa as a bheith ag déanamh feall i n-aghaidh cearta Daonna duine cónaí cé áit is mian léi/leis.Mar shampla má díoltar an quota ar thithe "Gaeilge" agus fágtar amach teaghlach áitúil a bhfuil togha na Gaeilge acu agus bíonn "breac Ghaeilgeoirí" curtha isteach céard a thárlóthas ansin.? An gcaithfí an teaghlach(Lánúin) áitúil fanacht go dtógfar tithe nua nó an mbeidh an áit a fhágál agus cónaí sa mbaile mór ag lagú an Ghaeltacht agus ag tógál a gclann ar Bhéarla mar Béarla a labhraítear san mbaile sin.Níl san rud uilig a cur dall na mullóg ar dhaoine agus ag déanamh amach go bhfuil na h-údaráis ag obair ar son na Gaeilge.

ignorant = míbhéasach seachas aineolach sa chás seo.

Tá tuairim ann in Éireann go bhfuil sé míbhéasach Gaeilge a labhairt nuair atá daoine ata aineolach uirthi i láthair - tuairim nach dtagaim leis.

Agus ní thagaim le héadóchas Mickrua ach oiread.

Tógfaidh sé i bhfad, ach is dóigh liom go bhfuil "ná h-údáráis" dáríre - Éamon Ó Cuiv, Séan Ó Cuirreáin agus Pádraig Ó hAolain ach go hairithe.

If there's a group of three people and one of them doesn't speak Irish, would you speak Irish to the other fella and leave out the Béarlóir completely? That's ignorant and people being as polite as they are, aren't going to do that. Whether they should or not is irrelevant. What Mickrua said is another cause for pessimism, but also, what Aonghus said about the authorities being is serious is also true, only they're the only three of the 'powers that be' who are serious about Irish. Or there's few more.

Cúpla rud - i was in Falcarragh not so long ago and yes everyone more or less had good irish. No they didnt use it for the most part. Even 2nights ago when i was out in dublin i met two lads i know (one from Machaire Rabhartaigh, one from outside Falacarragh) they didnt speak Gaeilge until i refused to answer in English. They also laughed about it saying that they don't know what Gaeilge is until the grant chap arrives in town. The important thing is they have it and as long as there's potential there they need to be 'persuaded' to use it - show them the benefits, use whatever method you like just so long as 'the powers that be' get off their asses and do something we can live in hope.
I'm in two minds about the whole ignorance thing.. I see both views.. I have this problem daily - It's not nice to leave someone out *and i blame the education system - NOT the person for them not being able to respond as Gaeilge* but why should Gaeilgeoirí shut their mouths i.e. encouraging English to the unfortunate loss for Gaeilge..
Táim fós i gcás idir dhá chomhairle faoi seo Hmmmm..

>one from Machaire Rabhartaigh

Bhí mé i Machaire Rabhartaigh cúig bliana ó shoin b’fhéidir. Casadh domh seanbhean a rabh Gaeilg bhinn aici, ach Béarla bocht. Agus Gaeilg iontach binn is nádúrtha ag bunadh na háite. Áit iargúlta, agus áit iontach Gaelach don pharóiste s’againne atá ann, dar liom. Cé nach bhfuil an Fál Carrach i bhfad uaithi.

Sin a deir mo chara liom -
Is aerach é agus nior thuig a thuisti cad a bhi i gceist le buachaill a raibh suim aige i mbuachailli eile ;D

’Bhfuil baint ar bith eadar ar inis tú agus ar scríobh mé thuas?

Ní dhéarfainn é!