I found a good guide to Ulster pronunciation on the Ultach site. The link is http://www.ultach.dsl.pipex.com/resources/Ulster%20Irish%20Pronunciation.pdf

For my purposes, none of the guides to Irish pronunciation or in any of the books is satisfactory, because they don't constitute a complete guide to figuring out the pronunciation of every word. Dillons's TYI and Learning Irish for Munster/Connaught are better, but leave me with outstanding questions on phonology. Tu's Maith is hopeless on phonology. The PDF I quoted in the last paragraph does not mention that fact that "ai" as in "maith" can be pronounced as a diphthong "a+i" in Ulster Irish - or at least is in Tu's Maith - and only mentions a pronunciation as a pure vowel in another word. I cannot find any very detailed guides to the phonology of the three dialects in easily findable places on the Internet. And the Wikipedia entry on Irish phonology is woeful. Can I mention again my PDF, based on Lughaidh's sound recordings, of all the phonemes/allophones in the 3 dialects. It is at http://www.hskvocabulary.com/IPA%20for%20Irish.pdf, and if anyone has any comments I would like to receive them. If "f" should be bilabilal in Irish, does that mean slender bh/mh should be so also? I think I need to include bilabial and labiodental realisations as separate allophones in the PDF. I intend to eventually send it to Antony Green, who seems to have contributed a lot to the Wikipedia entry, and seems to know a lot, for comments etc. [May I add that fluency in Irish is one thing, knowledge of phonetic theory another - I am not fluent in Irish, but by the same token many who are will have nothing to contribute on this subject.]


There is a PDF at http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cmp-lg/pdf/9503/9503002.pdf, which says that speakers of Munster and Connaught Irish generally turn off the radio when Ulster Irish comes on...

(Message edited by djwebb2002 on October 02, 2005)

(Message edited by djwebb2002 on October 02, 2005)

The PDF of Ultach about Ulster Irish looks very good (except the explanation about broad r: it can’t be compared to English r).

Yes, the Ultach PDF did strike me as being very informative, but it didn't explain why maith is pronounced like English "my". It didn't explain how an Ulster "u" differs from a Connaught "u", but from listening to Tu's maith, it is quite clear that the Ulster u is different (I think, Lughaidh, you have explained this many times on Daltai, I am just pointed out that that PDF did not go into details.)

Yeah.

Actually, "maith" isn't like "my", it is /majx'/: there's the sound of slender ch at the end (the sound you have in England English "huge", i think), German Ich-Laut.

There are many details and things that are missing there, you're right.

I've listened to BBC Northern Ireland (I assume this is a likely place to listen out for Ulster pronunciation) and I've heard go moy, go my, and go mah, but I can't pick up a trace of anything resembling the sound in "huge." Where can I hear this sound? Anyone?

They could as well write that page in Chinese... I didn't understand anything of it. So dearg is jyarug and do dheontas is d' yowntas?

Jos nyt on pakko puhua ns "kansainvälistä" kieltä, voidaan kyllä valita kielen, jonka puhujat hallitsevat sekä ääntämistä että kirjoittamista ;-)

>I've listened to BBC Northern Ireland (I assume this is >a likely place to listen out for Ulster pronunciation) >and I've heard go moy, go my, and go mah, but I can't >pick up a trace of anything resembling the sound >in "huge."

Were they native speakers? Learners often pronounce maith like "my".

>Where can I hear this sound? Anyone?

It's the sound you have with every slender ch: cheo, cheol, cheann, etc.

Being an English (and Spanish to a certain degree) speaker from the US, the pronunciations explained on the referenced web page are the most helpful (for me) that I've yet seen. They get me closer to the recordings from Irish On Your Own than has any other source.

One thing that has held me up considerably over the months is the overcomplication of pronunciation. I realize that spelling a word out in English can't get it perfect in Irish. But in most cases, it's close enough to then pick up the nuances from CD or listening to natives speak.

Of course, if your native language is not English, this guide isn't much help. But, like I said, as a native US English speaker, it's very helpful.

(Message edited by Chris_C on October 02, 2005)

"One thing that has held me up considerably over the months is the overcomplication of pronunciation."

I agree, the overcomplication is exactly what I don't like on that page. :-)

Jonas, I agree that the phonetic spelling on that page is rather absurd. One is left not knowing exactly what sounds are meant. The IPA would have been better. "Úna" on the Tús Maith CDs and the Learning Irish tapes is pronounced completely differently. The Ulster version does not seem to be rounded. But you would never guess that from the Ultach PDF - unless maybe the guide is clearer to speakers of Northern Ireland English, who may use the correct vowel in their English? But I disagree with respect to overcomplication. There is not enough detail on phonology in any of the available courses. To a learner who would understand IPA transcription, more is needed.