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Pádraig
Member Username: Pádraig
Post Number: 227 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 05:07 am: |
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I came across the following, and it desn't make any sense that anyone would say such a thing in the context. It appears that someone was asked why he was being dishonest. What kind of an answer is: níl an dara suí sa bhuaile orm? |
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 308 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 05:45 am: |
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"'Níl an dara suí sa bhuaile ann,' a deir duine nuair a bhíos sé de fhiacha air rud áirithe a dhéanamh agus gan rogha aige a athrach sin a dhéanamh." — Seán Mac Maoláin, "Cora Cainte as Tír Chonaill" (an dara heagrán, 1992). Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2119 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 06:41 am: |
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It's a stock phrase for "I have no choice", but it ought to be "agam" not "orm" |
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 311 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 04:36 pm: |
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• “Dubhairt sé le muintir Bhaile-átha-cliath nach rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann — go rabh an naoidheanán ar basgáid agus nach rabh dlígheadh ar a' riachtanas. — Séamus 'ac Grianna, "Caisleáin Óir” __________________________________________________ • “‘Agus,’ arsa Micheál, ‘nuair a chonnaic mise nach rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann,’ ar seisean, ag cur láimhe i n-a phóca agus ag tarraingt aníos na sgine, ‘bhuail mé le trí bhuille díthe sin thú i mbun na sróna.’ — Séamus 'ac Grianna, “Micheál Ruadh” __________________________________________________ • Acht ní rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann. • Acht ní rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann. — Séamus 'ac Grianna, “Nuair a Bhí Mé Óg” __________________________________________________ • Dar liom féin, níl a' dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann. • Acht i gcionn na haimsire bhí an saoghal a' teannadh orm féin, agus bhí mé a' smaoineadh nach rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann acht toiseacht a dh'aistriughadh. — Séamus 'ac Grianna, “Saoghal Corrach” __________________________________________________ • Ní rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann acht Mac Eachmharcaigh a phósadh agus a mhór a dhéanamh de. — Séamus 'ac Grianna, “Scéal Úr agus Sean-Scéal” __________________________________________________ • Ní rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann. — Séamus 'ac Grianna, “An Teach nár Tógadh” __________________________________________________ • Ní rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann acht mo chuid talaimh a dhíol. — Seosamh 'ac Grianna, “Dochartach Dhuibhlionna” __________________________________________________ • Ach ní rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann. • Ní rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann ach tarraingt ar an chéad solas a tchífeadh sé. — Seosamh 'ac Grianna, “Pádraic Ó Conaire agus Aistí Eile” __________________________________________________ • Más cara damh a d'innis an sgéal sin duit, agus mara labhair sé go cadranta, b'éigean dó go dtug sé le fios duit nach rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh agam ann ach amhras a bheith ar fhearaibh agam. — Seosamh 'ac Grianna, “Ben-Hur” __________________________________________________ • Chuaidh sé go Sambir nuair nach rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh aige. — Seosamh 'ac Grianna, “Dith Céille Almayer” __________________________________________________ • “Bhris muid dhá bhád,” arsa Toirdhealbhach, “ní rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann.” — Seosamh 'ac Grianna, “Muinntir an Oileáin” __________________________________________________ • I n-amannaí bhí an tír iongantach clochach le cois cas-coillte a bheith ann, agus d'éirigh cosa an eallaigh bhoicht comh nimhneach le cosa páistí — bhí cuid acú a bhí a' cur fola suas go dtí na glúine; ach thiománamar linn iad. Ní rabh an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann. • “A Shéamuis, a bhuachaill, tá mé buadhartha fá dtaobh duit-se, ach sé mo chiall go gcaithfimid fanacht annseo bliadhain nó dhó gan amhras, agus 'á luathas 'á dtuigfimid nach bhfuil an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann ach sin, is amhlaidh is fearr dúinn é.” — Domhnall 'ac Grianna, “Gadaidheacht le Láimh Láidir” __________________________________________________ • Chan fhuil an darna suidhe sa bhuailidh ann. — Tadhg Ó Rabhartaigh, “Mian na Marbh” __________________________________________________ • “Níl an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann, a dheirbhshiúr,” arsa an seanduine. • “Is doiligh linn bhur bhfágáil ar an dóigh seo,” ar seisean, “ach níl an dara suidhe sa bhuailidh ann. — Tadhg Ó Rabhartaigh, “Thiar i nGleann Ceo” __________________________________________________ http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/tobar/ Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2125 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 03:00 pm: |
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Ní gá scairteadh, a Pheadair. Ní duirt mé go raibh "ann" mí cheart, dúirt mé gur "agam" ba cheart a bheith ann seachas "orm" Sampla: "Ní raibh an dara suí sa bhuaile ag Tarlach" As: Cith is Dealán le Séamas Mac Grianna |
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Liz
Member Username: Liz
Post Number: 13 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 12:33 am: |
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Here's more than you want to know: Dinneen says "buaile -- a "booley" a field or building where cattle are kept for milking; the yard where farmyard manure is prepared; an enclosure, a palisade; a byre; a weir; a fence of shields; a kraal.." I read recently in Kevin Danaher's "Irish Customs and Beliefs" that some people used to spend their summer up in the mountains grazing and milking the cows at the booley. Mr. Danaher quotes Michael Cunningham (1875) -- "The reason for going up at all was that there was no rent on the mountain and the land on the farm below was nearly all put under hay to feed the cows in the wintertime. In that way a farmer could have a lot more cattle on a small farm." He goes on to say that the people lived in small huts with sometimes "a mile or more between them." I would translate : "níl an dara suí sa bhuaile ann" literally as -- "there's no second seat in the booley" and maybe it means the booley is so small that there is only one chair, so there's no second choice of a seat. Any other thoughts about the origin of the phrase? |
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Pádraig
Member Username: Pádraig
Post Number: 241 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 04:05 am: |
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No other thoughts, Liz, than to say that I'll probably never forget the expression or its meaning because you've given it meaning. I never would have come up with your explanation, and was going with "there's no other chair in the pasture." Who puts a chair out in the field? Now let's see you take a shot at "go n-éirí an bothar leat." |
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Dancas1
Member Username: Dancas1
Post Number: 139 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 06:04 am: |
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"there's no second seat in the booley" and maybe it means the booley is so small that there is only one chair, so there's no second choice of a seat. Any other thoughts about the origin of the phrase? Interestingly, the chair may have been called a "saoiste." It was a seat made of rushes or straw. I don't have Dineen handy, but I believe that is how he defines it. Though whether it was "sa bhuaile" or just in the fields is not clear. A saoiste later also meant a field boss or overseer, as well, I believe. I will have to look in Dineen when I get a chance. I always like the word saoiste. DC
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 2131 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 07:45 am: |
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I would caution in cases like this against assuming the simplest meaning for a word. suí does not simply mean seat (just as éirí does not simply mean rise!):
suí [ainm briathartha][ainmfhocal firinscneach den cheathrú díochlaonadh] bualadh fút ar shuíochán nó ar an talamh; bheith i seisiún (suí ar choiste; tá an chúirt ina suí); socrú síos (suí ar thalamh duine); éirí (an bhfuil sé ina shuí fós?); fanacht suas (suí le duine tinn); ligean ar cíos (talamh a shuí le duine); suíomh, socrú, bunú (shuigh sé campa ann; shuigh sé cíos orthu); áitiú (shuigh sé go daingean orm é); áit, loc (faire, suí seilge; suí rí); cathaoir, oifig (suí easpaig, an Suí Naofa). (Message edited by aonghus on October 03, 2005) |
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