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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (September-October) » Archive through October 03, 2005 » "Drop dead, dialects! Who needs you?" « Previous Next »

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member
Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 297
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 04:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post

“Cluinim go bhfuil dlús dá chur le leitriú na Gaedhilge a cháighdeanú. Is maith sin agus is mithid é a dhéanamh. Tá súil agam nach ndéanfar praiseach den scéal agus an leitriú sin a bheith bunaighthe ar aonchanamhaint amháin mar tá an Ghaedhilg oifigeamhail. Is beag mo mheas ar an Ghaedhilig sin—treasarlach nach bhfuil bun no barr uirthi agus nach féidir le duine ar bith í thuigbheál gan aistriú Béarla bheith léi.

“Má bhíonn an caighdeanú mar sin b’fhearr leigin dó no bogán a bhéas ann nach dtiocfaidh sliogán a choidhche air agus i dtaca le geint a bheith ann féin níl aon ghar a bheith ag súil leis.”

— Micheál Óg Mac Pháidín
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0087/D.0087.194206010016.html
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“A rashonal speling wood be kwikly lurnt, and, az it wood be relaeted thruout to pronunsyaeshon, speech wood reseev dhe atenshon it dezurvz; and much ov dhe tiem nou waestfooly spent bie boeth puepl and teecher on korekting speling mistaeks miet be given to mor konstruktiv aktivitiz. A fue difikultiz due to eksepshonz wood aulwaez remaen, oïng to dhe egzistens ov dialectal variëtiz ov pronunsyaeshon; for it iz very dezierabl dhat speling shood be in aul esenshalz ueniform evriwhaer, and dhis meenz dhat a surten number ov loekal soundz wood not be akueretly reprezented in rieting. But dhe eksepshonz wood noewhaer be nuemerus, and, whot iz partikuelarly important, a good reezon for dhaer okurrens kood aulwaez be given - we wont to maek it az eezy az posibl for eny speeker ov Inglish to understand whot eniwun els riets in it.”
http://www.spellingsociety.org/aboutsss/leaflets/advantages3.php
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“One Professor of Irish of the National University called the newly published standard as the most hateful monster that ever appeared in the language (Ó Ruairc 1993:36)1. Since the standardized system was first used and propagated within the civil service, one still hears disparaging reference to Gaeilge na státseirbhíse (The Irish of the Civil Service). Dictionaries published since 1957, notably De Bhaldraithe (1959) and Ó Dónaill (1977), have had the effect of strengthening the standard version of spelling, but many problems remain unresolved.

Problems and Challenges.
“The standardized spelling system has held sway for nearly forty years now and is used in all school textbooks and educational publications. Dialectal variations in spelling and grammar continue to appear in reprinted school texts (eg, the works of the Donegal writer Máire), but they are generally highlighted and explained in a glossary. The general situation, however is far from satisfactory.

“First, the complicated morphological and inflectional system of the language continues to present problems for the learner. The standard evolving has not gone far enough to reduce the intricate complexities that confront learners at all levels. There is evidence to suggest that some learners in Irish schools, where the study of the language is compulsory, may have little understanding or awareness of how the system differs from English, even after a period of nine years instruction. (Ó Laoire 1995).2

“The biggest problem with the official standard, however, is that it does not agree in any systematic way with the spoken dialects. Any system of spelling must take account of the variations that occur in pronunciation. While some efforts were made to ensure that this occurred in Irish, many scholars would argue that such efforts have not been sufficient. Bliss (1981: 911)3 for example, criticizes the official standard for not taking cognizance of variation. He explains: "As far as pronunciation is concerned it seems impossible to discern any rhyme or reason in the choice of spellings. Some changes in traditional spelling are quite inexplicable, as for instance the change of the historical chuaidh, deachaidh 'went' to chuaigh, deachaigh, a change that could not possibly be dependent on pronunciation since DH or GH were identified many hundred years ago."

“There appear to be discrepancies, therefore, between the choice made in the standard system and the dialectal variations. Sometimes, the choice made in the standardization makes little sense. Bliss (1981:911) quotes an interesting example of this discrepancy. For "...the word traditionally spelt tráigh, 'strand', Northern Irish generally has the pronunciation trái and Southern Irish the pronunciation tráig, but the caighdeán (standard) spelling is trá, a pronunciation hardly heard outside Cois Fharraige (a localized sub-dialect of the western dialect)". The discarding of the -IGH was not carried out systematically. It was retained for some unknown reason in many verbs in particular, eg, dóigh 'burn' or léigh 'read'.

“Some scholars also argue that simplification in spelling has led to a more complicated grammatical system. (Wigger 1979:195).4 In the old spelling system the ending -(E)ANN was added to all verb roots in the present tense, eg, briseann 'breaks', léigheann 'reads', nigheann 'washes'. In Modern Irish, however, while the -GH was retained in the root form léigh, nigh, the present tense of such verbs according to the standard spelling system introduces a new ending -ONN in the case of NIGH, while léigh retains the -EANN ending. The new spelling system has léann, and níonn respectively. These examples represent only some of the problems that are often cited as being attributable to the new system…”

—Muiris Ó Laoire
http://www.spellingsociety.org/journals/j22/irish.php

1Ó Ruairc, M (1993) Forbairt na Gaeilge-Caoga Bliain Amach. Teangeolas 32, 35-44.
2Ó Laoire, M (1995) Developing Language Awareness in the Irish Language. Classroom Journal of Celtic Language Learning 2, 54-77.
3Bliss, A (1981) The standardization of Irish. Crane bag 5(2) 908-914.
4Wigger, A (1979) Irish Dialect, Phonology and Problems of Irish Orthography. Papers in Celtic Phonology: New University of Ulster

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member
Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 299
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

GAEILGE-A Archives -- August 2002 (#16)

Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:17:13 -0400
Reply-To: Comhra i nGaeilge na hEireann
Sender: Comhra i nGaeilge na hEireann
From: Sean O'Connor
Subject: Re: Gaeilge Bheo

“Seo an dara huair, go bhfios dom, Panu ag moladh Gaeilge Thuaisceart Mhaigh Eo mar dhúshraith do Ghaeilge lárnach, cineál "Standard Acquired Irish", agus is suimiúil mar mholadh é. Cé go bhfuil mórchuid de na leabhair ar a liosta thíos léite agam, ní léir dom buntáiste ar leith ag baint leis an nGaeilge iontu. Tá a fhios againn uilig an bhá atá ag Panu le Gaeilge Thír Chonaill, go mór mór litríocht na canúna sin agus is léir, freisin, ón méid atá scríofa aige fhéin (Tachtaimis an Grádh Sin; Péist an Mheadhon Oídhche agus píosaí eile nach iad) gur domhain agus leathan a chuid eolais ar Ghaeilge Uladh agus go bhfuil sé den tuairim, agus ní hé amháin atá den tuairim sin, go ndearnadh feall mór ar Ghaeilge Uladh nuair a bhí an Caighdeán Oifigiúil á chur le chéile. Is dócha, mar sin, go samhlaíonn sé Gaeilge Mhaigh Eo mar chineál droichid idir Ghaeilge Uladh agus na canúintí eile. Mar a dúirt mé cheana, is suimiúil mar mholadh é (agus é ag dul le dearcadh Uí Chadhain i leith canúnachais), ach mar a admhaíonn sé fhéin, is tearc í litríocht Ghaeilge Mhaigh Eo agus táim ag ceapadh gur thanaí mar dhúshraith í. Barúlacha eile faoin scéal seo?

“Dáiríribh, tá mise barúlach go mba chóir feachtas ar leith a chur ar bun le Gaeilge Thuaisceart Mhaigh Eo a chur chun cinn mar chaighdeán labhartha. Is í an chanúint seo an comhghéilleadh is fearr eadar na canúintí uile, agus í ar maos le focail Ultacha siúd is go bhfuil an ghramadach níos gaire do Ghaeilge Chonamara. Dá mbeadh Gaeilge Mhaigh Eo againn uilig mar bhunchanúint, bheadh sé iontach nádúrtha focail agus teilgeanacha cainte a ghoid ó achan taobh agus ár gcuid a dhéanamh díofa. Is í Gaeilge Thuaisceart Mhaigh Eo an socrú a chuirfeadh deireadh le cogadh na gcanúintí, dá mbeadh de mheabhraíocht ionainn an comhghéilleadh seo a chur chun cinn.

“Ar ndóighe, tá sé scannalach nach bhfuil mórán ábhair ar fáil sa chanúint seo. Níl ann go bunúsach ach "A Chomhairle Féin do Mhac Anna", "Seanfhocail as Acaill", "Ridire an Gháire Dhuibh", "Fánaíocht i gContae Mhaigh Eo", "A Mhuintir Dhú Chaocháin, Labhraigí Feasta", "Le Gradam is le Spraoi" agus "Pádhraic Mháire Bhán". Tá siad uilig léite agam, ach bheadh tuilleadh de dhíth. An bhfuil a fhios ag aon duine dírbheathaisnéis mhaith Ghaeltachta ó Thuaisceart Mhaigh Eo?”

https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0208&L=gaeilge-a&T=0&F=&S=&P=1602

Peadar Ó Gríofa



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