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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (September-October) » Archive through September 25, 2005 » The word Cén « Previous Next »

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Djwebb2002
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Username: Djwebb2002

Post Number: 58
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is this a combination of Cé and an? I can't find Cén in Dinneen's dictionary, but Cé exists. It also says to see Cia, where "where" is given as Cia (an) áit?

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 792
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Cén is a combination of cé + an.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2061
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Sea.

cén
cé2 + an.

cé [mír cheisteach]
cad é an duine nó an rud (cé hé sin? cén chaoi a bhfuil tú?).
cé acu (cén ceann nó duine díobh (cé acu is fearr leat? níl a fhios agam cé acu)).
cén chaoi (conas).
cén dóigh (conas).

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dinneen's "cia" is an old form of "cé".

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 794
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Cia, from Old Irish cía; Welsh pwy, Breton piv... Latin quis...

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 19
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

... and from Proto-Indoeuropean *kwi :-)

Lars

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 797
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 06:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Common Celtic, something like *k(w)ê, i'd say.

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 21
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Common Celtic, according to Lewis/Pedersen (Concise Comparative Celtic Grammar): *kuei (*kuoi?)

BTW:Breton is piou in this book.

Lars

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 799
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

*k(w)ei et *k(w)oi must be older forms than *k(w)ê. I gave *k(w)ê because Gaelic -ia- as a cognate to Welsh -wy-, Breton -oe-, -oa- come from older long -ê-'s.

Breton has several spellings. Piv and piou are the very same word. The first one is in the Peurunvan (=Unified) spelling, the second (the one you gave) is in the Skolveurieg (=Universitary) spelling. There are other spellings like piw and più, for example. Nowadays, "piv" is the most used spelling. (I speak Breton fluently, so... ).

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Lars
Member
Username: Lars

Post Number: 22
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 08:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I don't speak Breton at all, I must say.
My impression is that the spelling "piv" looks better ("piou", esp. "ou" looks almost like being French).
But, AFAIR, I saw lots of "ou" in Breton words, so "piou" seems to be more familiar to me.
Are they pronounced the same? /pju/, /piu/, /piv/ or /piw/?

> I speak Breton fluently, so... ).

Oh, I wish I could say that of any other language than German ...

Lars

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Djwebb2002
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Username: Djwebb2002

Post Number: 60
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 08:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

(I speak Breton fluently, so... ).

Lughaidh, let me finish your sentence for you:

I speak Breton fluently, so don't argue!! :-):-)

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Djwebb2002
Member
Username: Djwebb2002

Post Number: 61
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Lars your English seems fluent. I had assumed you were Swedish though, not German.

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 800
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

>My impression is that the spelling "piv" looks better ("piou", esp. "ou" looks almost like being French).
>But, AFAIR, I saw lots of "ou" in Breton words, >so "piou" seems to be more familiar to me.
>Are they pronounced the same? /pju/, /piu/, /piv/ >or /piw/?

The pronounciation depends on dialect: Breton is the Celtic language that has the biggest number of dialectal variants. Let's say some of the pronounciations:
[pif],[piw], [piy], [pju], [pi], [piu]...

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Lars
Member
Username: Lars

Post Number: 23
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

> Lars your English seems fluent.

Go raibh maith agat.
Ach, mhuise, is fusa scríobh ná labhairt ...

> I had assumed you were Swedish though, not German.

Ó, cén fáth? Mar gheall ar m'ainmse, b'fhéidir? Ach ní hea, ní Sualannach mé.
Is coitianta an t-ainm é "Lars" i nGearmáin inniu, go háirithe ar na daoine óga. (Ach b'ainm annamh é sin san am ar rugadh mé, caithfidh mé a rá i bhfabhar mo thuismitheoirí ... )

Lars

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2065
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 05:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

B'é an Béar úd is ciontaí leis sin, meas tú?

http://www.trickfilmwelt.de/eisbaer.htm



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