I don't remember where I've found this link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/gcsebitesize/irish/speakingh/an_gha eltacht4_rev.shtml

Quite funny. The Irish isn't too bad, but it's non-native. The speakers sounds to be Belfast Irish speakers: the language is a blend of Standard Irish with some Donegal features, and for pronounciation it is like Donegal Irish with a Belfast English-speaker accent (hear the "oo"-sounds pronounced like German ü, or French u) and some pronounciation mistakes. But it's not too bad for those interested in Ulster Irish - in waiting for better stuff !

I always wonder if it is that haaard to find Donegal native speakers. Why on earth are most recordings on the web made by non-native speakers? There are loads of natives, is it too expensive to go to the Gaeltacht?

In the French stuff, the speakers are native ones. So...?

Bhfuil leagan Breatnaise de na ceachtanna sin ann?

Ní dóigh liom é, níl ann ach na hábhair a bíos ag scoláirí don Leaving in Eirinn, dar liom. Mar theangthacha eile gheobhaidh tú Fraincis, Gearmáinis, Spáinnis.

Lughaidh, I emailed the author of Tus Maith to ask why he didn't use native speakers for his recordings of Ulster Irish, but he hasn't replied. Can I ask you if Ulster Irish has the "th" sound in the English word "this"? The man on the tape pronounces the "d" in fada as "th". Is this right?

(Message edited by djwebb2002 on September 24, 2005)

Lughaidh, can you tell me if any of the speakers on this audio file at http://www.hskvocabulary.com/1.2.2.mp3 sound like native speakers? This is one of the tracks from Tús Maith, and I think maybe one of the male speakers is more likely to be a native speaker than the female speakers and the other male speakers? I am not sure, but it doesn't sound very good. Maybe people on this list should avoid that course? The course says that "the recordings have been prepared by a team of speakers drawn from various Irish-speaking communities in Ulster", which makes it sound more like Shaws Road than Bloody Foreland? I am wondering if there is a political aspect to this, whereby people in Northern Ireland feel, rightly in a way, that Irish belongs to them all and not just to the Gaeltacht, and so there is no need to always showcase native speakers as the only speakers of Irish?

>Lughaidh, I emailed the author of Tus Maith to ask why >he didn't use native speakers for his recordings of >Ulster Irish, but he hasn't replied. Can I ask you if >Ulster Irish has the "th" sound in the English >word "this"?

no, since the Middle Irish period (long ago, then).

>The man on the tape pronounces the "d" in fada as "th". >Is this right?

No. The Irish broad d is dental, as th is, but d is a stop, while th is a fricative.


>Lughaidh, can you tell me if any of the speakers on >this audio file at >http://www.hskvocabulary.com/1.2.2.mp3 sound like >native speakers?

Yeah, they all sound like natives except one woman - you'll know her because of the way she pronounces the r's and the final vowels (she makes diphthongs as in English; there's nothing such in Irish).

>This is one of the tracks from Tús Maith, and I think >maybe one of the male speakers is more likely to be a >native speaker than the female speakers and the other >male speakers? I am not sure, but it doesn't sound very >good. Maybe people on this list should avoid that >course?

I've heard much much worse. Just one of the speakers has an English accent.

>The course says that "the recordings have been prepared >by a team of speakers drawn from various Irish-speaking >communities in Ulster", which makes it sound more like >Shaws Road than Bloody Foreland?

yeah :-)

>I am wondering if there is a political aspect to this, >whereby people in Northern Ireland feel, rightly in a >way, that Irish belongs to them all and not just to the >Gaeltacht, and so there is no need to always showcase >native speakers as the only speakers of Irish?

Some think that. I don't. For me, the Irish spoken by a learner can't be a perfect example to follow - except when there isn't no difference at all between his speech and that of a native (especially for sounds, because it's what you learn first). But most of the time, there's an audible difference, because the sounds of English and Irish are very different, and an English speaker's accent is hard to make disappear.

OK, so it sounds like the Tus Maith recordings are not too bad.

I think the woman speaking in the Irish exercises is from Rannafarste. She sounds it anyway. Her voice does sound very familiar too, so maybe that's it.

That's interesting. Do you think you might actually know the woman on the tapes? Is it generally the case that speakers from her area of Donegal don't use the trilled r?

Bhuel, some speakers can use /j/ for /r'/ according to Lughaidh in another post.

As for English people speaking Irish, I have only ever heard 2 people (on TG4), and both were decent, the Anglican guy on the documentary about Reformation Gaels, suprisingly good, and I must say, both were more gaelic than nearly every speaker from Ireland who grew up in English one sees in the media, so dont give up hope!

Thank you for your interesting comments. Reformation Gaels - sounds interesting!!

>That's interesting. Do you think you might actually >know the woman on the tapes? Is it generally the case >that speakers from her area of Donegal don't use the >trilled r?

All native speakers in Donegal use trilled r's, except *sometimes* younger speakers, mainly at the end of words (almost never elsewhere). The woman that pronounces the r's as in English there isn't from Rannafast, I think. Anyway there are 2 women in the recordings, aren't there?

>Bhuel, some speakers can use /j/ for /r'/ according to >Lughaidh in another post.

Yes but that's mainly a Gweedore feature. It can be found sporadically in other places of NW Donegal. I have heard it by some speakers from Gortahork (mainly at the end of words, for example "athair" /ehej/). But when most slender r's are pronounced like that, it's really a Gweedore feature: other speakers know Gweedore people with that, and sometimes make gently fun of them. In Gweedore you'll hear things like
aire /ajə/
máthair /mahej/
oibre /eb'jə/
ariamh /əji:əw/
fir /f'ij/, etc
Gaoth Dobhair /gi do:j/
tabhair /to:j/