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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (September-October) » Archive through September 25, 2005 » "No problem" in Irish « Previous Next »

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 711
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Just a post about a mistake I've seen elsewhere:

"no problem" in Irish is "gan fadhb ar bith".

Many learners say "fadhb ar bith", but this means "any problem".

For "no...", you have to use "ar bith" after the noun PLUS a negative word before it, otherwise it means "any".

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
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Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 260
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Yup, and "dada/dadaí/tada/tadaí" does not mean "nothing"; it means "anything."

"Tháinig siad ar ais agus gan dada faighte acu."

"Ar thug siad dada le n-ithe dhóibh?" Did they give them anything to eat?
"Thug, a ndóthain."
"Agus céard a thug siad duitse?"
"Níor thug tada."

"An bhfuil dada le rá agat?" Have you anything to say?
"Tá, agus déarfaidh mé libh anois é."

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 240
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Scríobh Domhnall inniu:
quote:

Fadhb ar bith a chara..


Scríobh Lughaidh:
quote:

Many learners say "fadhb ar bith", but this means "any problem".

Tá an loighic ar do thaobhsa, a Lughaidh, ach sin an méid! Deirtear "Fadhb ar bith" go forleathan -- deirim féin é -- agus tá sé san fhoclóir.

Collins Pocket Irish Dictionary, s.v. "problem": no problem! fadhb ar bith!

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 241
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 10:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Maidir le dada/dadaí/tada/tadaí, tá scéal sách suimiúil taobh thiar de:

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaeilge/donncha/stair-an-fhocail/foc16.html

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 794
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 11:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Firstly, why is translation difficult here? Because you're translating a sentence fragment. You can translate paragraphs and sentences no bother, but when it comes to fragments... you need to know your stuff.

>> No problem!

This is an abbreviation of the sentence:

It is no problem

How would you say that in Irish? Like so:

Ní fadhb ar bith í

How would you abbreviate such a common sentence?

Fadhb ar bith!

If I were to exclaim "Any problem!", I'd say "aon fhadbh", and if I wanted to give it extra ummph:

aon fhadhb faoin ngréin!

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
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Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 263
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

"dadamh, dadaidh, dadaí" i gCúige Uladh, "tada" i gConnachta
http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaeilge/donncha/stair-an-fhocail/foc16.html

"Dadaí" agus "tadaí" adeirtear i Maigh Eo.

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 718
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 07:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

>Tá an loighic ar do thaobhsa, a Lughaidh, ach sin an >méid! Deirtear "Fadhb ar bith" go forleathan -- deirim >féin é -- agus tá sé san fhoclóir.

>Collins Pocket Irish Dictionary, s.v. "problem": no >problem! fadhb ar bith!

Meancóg atá ann, agus ní dóigh liom go ndeirfeadh cainteoir maith é ná cainteoir dúchais. Amannaí tá rudaí míchearta sna foclóirí. Ní sa Ghaeltacht a chualathas "fadhb ar bith".
'S é mo chrá seo a ráidht, siocair go bhfuil aithne agam ar na daoiní a rinn an Collins Gem, agus cibé ar bith, tá mé cinnte nach ndeireann siad féin "fadhb ar bith".

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 249
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

quote:

Yup, and "dada/dadaí/tada/tadaí" does not mean "nothing"; it means "anything."

Sliocht as an úrscéal Sna Fir le Micheál Ó Conghaile, cainteoir dúchais as Inis Treabhair, lch. 57:

"Céard a bheas ar siúl anseo agat?" a d'fhiafraigh sí, go séimh. "Tada."

"Tada, an chuid is mó den am, tá súil agam. Beidh mé in ainm is a bheith ag staidéar scaití...."


"Tada / dada" can mean "nothing" without a negative term attached in ordinary conversation like the above; that is, if you're willing to credit a well-read, Gaeltacht-dwelling native speaker like the author. Ní raibh sé deacair an sampla seo a fháil. Thóg sé cúig nóiméad orm.

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
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Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 266
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 11:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ar ndóigh is iomdha giorrachan a dhéantar sa gcaint:
"Se te 'niu! Tú 'g iarra' deoch?"
__________________________________________________

Mícheál Ó Conaire: Chuir mé láimh i mo phó... bhoil phioc mé ansin a raibh de mhóin an dtuigeann tú, ar an maolóid, agus chaith mé isteach aige [é], agus é ag rá i gcónaí an seanfhear thiar chun deiridh: "B'fhurasta brabach a fháil oraibh ar mhuintir Chonamara" adeir sé. Caint ar bith ar a mbrabach féin.

Tomás Ó Conaire: Ní raibh.

Mícheál: Ní raibh! Ach, bhí go maith agus ní raibh go holc, chuir mé láimh i mo phóca, agus bhí mé ag síneadh leathchoróin ag an leaid óg le haghaidh deoch. Ní raibh aon mhaith dhom ag caint.

Tomás: Ní raibh.

Mícheál: Áh ní thógfadh sé í. A Thiarna Dia agus í ag teastáil. Ní thógfadh. Gur úirt sé féin thiar chun deiridh: "Ah muise." Fada a bhí mé. "Óh caithfidh tú í a thógáil" adeirim. "Ní thógfad." "Caithfidh tú í a thógáil" adeir mise...

— "Caint Ros Muc"
http://www.celt.dias.ie/publications/cat/e/e2-12-1.html

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
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Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 267
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 12:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post

AinmAois (i 1964)ScoilGairmAm thar sáile
Mícheál Ó Conaire68IVBádóir14 bl. i Meiriceá
Tomás Ó Conaire27Ardt.Múinteoir2 mhí i Sasana

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 252
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hark!

Another ex cathedra pronouncement from Lughaidh, our local GPL (Guardian of the Purity of the Language):
quote:

Meancóg atá ann

Cairde de do chuid a chuir i gcló é, i bhfoclóir, ach tá tusa cinnte nach raibh siad dáiríre faoi?!?

When Séamus Mac Mathúna and/or Ailbhe Ó Corráin get in touch with us and tell us that they were just kidding about Fadhb ar bith!, that including it in their dictionary was just a lark, then I'll listen.
quote:

ní dóigh liom go ndeirfeadh cainteoir maith é ná cainteoir dúchais

Bhí mé in ann go leor samplaí de Fadhb ar bith! a aimsiú ar an idirlíon. Ach caithfidh gur cainteoirí sub-par gan mhaith iad uilig a d'úsáid é, na créatúir. Ní thabharfaidh mé ach sampla amháin duit, áfach, ó Bharra Ó Donnabháin:

"Fadhb ar bith, go dtí le déanaí."

Mura bhfuil a fhios agat cé hé an duine seo, féach:

http://www.beo.ie/2003-09/michealdemordha.asp?print=true

Ach truaillitheoir eile na teangan a bhí ann, gan dabht, dar leatsa.

Éistigí le Lughaidh, mar is eisean an GPL. Right.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1924
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

An Bhriotáin locuta, causa finita!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1927
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dála an sceil feicim go dtugann an Dálach

"Anywhere" agus "Nowhere" mar brí air "Áit ar bith".

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 254
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Uh, cé hé an Dálach?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1929
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ó Donaill -> an Dálach!

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 726
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

>When Séamus Mac Mathúna and/or Ailbhe Ó Corráin get in >touch with us and tell us that they were just kidding >about Fadhb ar bith!, that including it in their >dictionary was just a lark, then I'll listen.

Meancóg chló, nó chuir siad "fadhb ar bith" ann siocair gur minic a chluineas siad san Ollscoil é, níl 's agam. Bhí Micheál O Murchú (a d'fhoghlaim Gaeilg lena mhuitir, dar liom, agus i Rann na Feirste agus leis na cainteoirí is fearr i dTír Chonaill) mar mhúinteoir orm fosta, agus is leis seo a d'fhoghlaim mé nach rabh ciall ar bith ag "fadhb ar bith" ach "any problem" agus nach féidir é a ráidht fá choinne "no problem". Muna n-aontann sibh leis sin, scríobhaigí chuige - níor bhuail mé ariamh le duine chomh heolach leis ar a' Ghaeilg. Tá 's agam cheana féin cad é a a fhreagar: "Ní Gaeilg ar bith é sin!"

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Max
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Username: Max

Post Number: 159
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

>>Tá 's agam cheana féin cad é a a fhreagar: "Ní Gaeilg ar bith é sin!"

In which case, along with being one of the most learned speakers, he is also a purist and (consequently) a precriptivist.

But as a linguist, you know better

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 255
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

quote:

"Anywhere" agus "Nowhere" mar brí air "Áit ar bith".

Agus faoi "nowhere" san fhoclóir Béarla-Gaeilge:

"Áit ar bith, in aon bhall, in aon áit. (With neg. expressed or implied)"

Tá an t-aon rud le léamh s.v. "nothing": "rud ar bith, dada, etc. (With neg. expressed or implied)". Nach ndéarfadh teangeolaí go bhfuil an "implied negative" céanna ag feidhmiú ins an dá abairt seo a leanas?

"Céard atá inniu ann? Tada, a mhac, ach na ballaí." (ó Deoir Ghoirt an Deoraí le Colm Ó Ceallaigh, ar as Camus ó dhúchas dó)

"Tá an ceart ar fad agat! Fadhb ar bith, a Mhórgacht!" (ón cholúnaí Balor ar Beo!)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1934
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Teanga atá inti.

Tá níos mó ná slí amhain le rud a rá.

(TMTOWTDI, mar a deir lucht Perl)

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Séamas_Ó_neachtain
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Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain

Post Number: 174
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Maidir liom féin, I could care less. ;-)

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 257
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post

quote:

I could care less.



No, no, no! EVERYONE knows that it should be "I couldn't care less."

Ag MAGADH atá mé!!!

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 259
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

By the way, I've come up with some nice examples of "Duine ar bith" with no expressed negative used to mean "no one" (a bhuí le Google). I'll post them, má tá éinne ag iarraidh iad a iniúchadh.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1943
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 02:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Duine ar bith á iarraidh?

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Séamas_Ó_neachtain
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Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain

Post Number: 177
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Nó á n-iarraidh? B'fhéidir duine atá ar iarraidh.

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 729
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

>By the way, I've come up with some nice examples >of "Duine ar bith" with no expressed negative used to >mean "no one" (a bhuí le Google). I'll post them, má tá >éinne ag iarraidh iad a iniúchadh.

Níor chruthú ar bith é sin. Má chuartann tú foclaí le meancógaí, gheobhaidh tú cuid mhór fosta.

Samplaí:

Gaelige: 26 400 results with Google.
Gaelgie: 53 results
Eirennach: 531
Na hEirinn: 915 (cuid acu ar shuíomh "dáiríre", mar shuíomh Forás na Gaeilge...)
foglaim: 467 (agus níl siad uilig i Sean-Ghaeilg!)
Bhféidir: 238
Gaelteacht: 959
Gealtacht: 514

srl srl.


Bhfuil na foclaí sin ceart, siocair gur minic a fhaightear le Google iad?

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 260
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 08:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Mo chreach is mo chrá, brat deataigh mar sin ó dhuine atá ina theangeolaí! Ní bhaineann dearmaid chló leis an scéal. Shíl mé go mbeadh suim ag eolaí sna sonraí. Tá díomá orm.

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 268
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Here's something more on the subject of the "implied negative" from Niall Ó Dónaill (FGB, aka an Foclóir Mór), s.v. "pioc":

"Cad tá ort? Pioc. What's wrong with you? Nothing."

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Rudi O Boyle
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Posted From:
Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 04:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

What about 'rud ar bith'?

Máire: Cad a fuair tú?
Pól: Mhuise, rud ar bith.

Now this translates as: 'What did you get? - Nothing' (=no thing) EVEN though 'rud ar bith' technically means anything.

By extension then, 'fadhb ar bith' can be translated into English as 'no problem'. Whether it is acceptable to equate this with the American English phrase "No problem' - meaning 'you're welcome, that's fine , it's not a problem, etc. is another matter.

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Dalta
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Posted From:
Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is No Problem an American English phrase? It seems a fairly old thing to me, it was no problem, certainly 'no worries' is a Hiberno-Englishism.

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Lars
Member
Username: Lars

Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Well, literally, "ar bith" means neither "no" nor "any". It means "on world". It is used in a figurative sense to denote either something in question or something to be negated in Irish.
To ask why "ar bith" can be used without any further negation to mean "no" is to think rather in English terms than in Irish ones, I guess.
Fadhb ar bith, mar sin. :-)

Lars

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 305
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

quote:

Is No Problem an American English phrase?

Is féidir gur thosaigh sé i Meiriceá. Tá no problema le cloisteáil sa Spáinnis anseo freisin, agus sílim go bhfuil (nó go raibh?) kein Problem agus pas de problème sách coitianta ar an Mór-Roinn. Deir na hAussies no worries, mura bhfuil dul amú orm. An bhfuil éinne ó Oz anseo?



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