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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 711 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 09:15 pm: |
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Just a post about a mistake I've seen elsewhere: "no problem" in Irish is "gan fadhb ar bith". Many learners say "fadhb ar bith", but this means "any problem". For "no...", you have to use "ar bith" after the noun PLUS a negative word before it, otherwise it means "any". |
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 260 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 10:01 pm: |
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Yup, and "dada/dadaí/tada/tadaí" does not mean "nothing"; it means "anything." "Tháinig siad ar ais agus gan dada faighte acu." "Ar thug siad dada le n-ithe dhóibh?" Did they give them anything to eat? "Thug, a ndóthain." "Agus céard a thug siad duitse?" "Níor thug tada." "An bhfuil dada le rá agat?" Have you anything to say? "Tá, agus déarfaidh mé libh anois é." Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 240 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 10:07 pm: |
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Scríobh Domhnall inniu: quote:Fadhb ar bith a chara.. Scríobh Lughaidh: quote:Many learners say "fadhb ar bith", but this means "any problem". Tá an loighic ar do thaobhsa, a Lughaidh, ach sin an méid! Deirtear "Fadhb ar bith" go forleathan -- deirim féin é -- agus tá sé san fhoclóir. Collins Pocket Irish Dictionary, s.v. "problem": no problem! fadhb ar bith! |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 241 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 10:17 pm: |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 794 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 11:36 pm: |
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Firstly, why is translation difficult here? Because you're translating a sentence fragment. You can translate paragraphs and sentences no bother, but when it comes to fragments... you need to know your stuff. >> No problem! This is an abbreviation of the sentence: It is no problem How would you say that in Irish? Like so: Ní fadhb ar bith í How would you abbreviate such a common sentence? Fadhb ar bith! If I were to exclaim "Any problem!", I'd say "aon fhadbh", and if I wanted to give it extra ummph: aon fhadhb faoin ngréin! Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 263 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:54 am: |
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Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 718 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 07:15 pm: |
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>Tá an loighic ar do thaobhsa, a Lughaidh, ach sin an >méid! Deirtear "Fadhb ar bith" go forleathan -- deirim >féin é -- agus tá sé san fhoclóir. >Collins Pocket Irish Dictionary, s.v. "problem": no >problem! fadhb ar bith! Meancóg atá ann, agus ní dóigh liom go ndeirfeadh cainteoir maith é ná cainteoir dúchais. Amannaí tá rudaí míchearta sna foclóirí. Ní sa Ghaeltacht a chualathas "fadhb ar bith". 'S é mo chrá seo a ráidht, siocair go bhfuil aithne agam ar na daoiní a rinn an Collins Gem, agus cibé ar bith, tá mé cinnte nach ndeireann siad féin "fadhb ar bith". |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 249 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 07:44 pm: |
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quote:Yup, and "dada/dadaí/tada/tadaí" does not mean "nothing"; it means "anything." Sliocht as an úrscéal Sna Fir le Micheál Ó Conghaile, cainteoir dúchais as Inis Treabhair, lch. 57: "Céard a bheas ar siúl anseo agat?" a d'fhiafraigh sí, go séimh. "Tada." "Tada, an chuid is mó den am, tá súil agam. Beidh mé in ainm is a bheith ag staidéar scaití...." "Tada / dada" can mean "nothing" without a negative term attached in ordinary conversation like the above; that is, if you're willing to credit a well-read, Gaeltacht-dwelling native speaker like the author. Ní raibh sé deacair an sampla seo a fháil. Thóg sé cúig nóiméad orm. |
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 266 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 11:50 pm: |
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Ar ndóigh is iomdha giorrachan a dhéantar sa gcaint: "Se te 'niu! Tú 'g iarra' deoch?" __________________________________________________ Mícheál Ó Conaire: Chuir mé láimh i mo phó... bhoil phioc mé ansin a raibh de mhóin an dtuigeann tú, ar an maolóid, agus chaith mé isteach aige [é], agus é ag rá i gcónaí an seanfhear thiar chun deiridh: "B'fhurasta brabach a fháil oraibh ar mhuintir Chonamara" adeir sé. Caint ar bith ar a mbrabach féin. Tomás Ó Conaire: Ní raibh. Mícheál: Ní raibh! Ach, bhí go maith agus ní raibh go holc, chuir mé láimh i mo phóca, agus bhí mé ag síneadh leathchoróin ag an leaid óg le haghaidh deoch. Ní raibh aon mhaith dhom ag caint. Tomás: Ní raibh. Mícheál: Áh ní thógfadh sé í. A Thiarna Dia agus í ag teastáil. Ní thógfadh. Gur úirt sé féin thiar chun deiridh: "Ah muise." Fada a bhí mé. "Óh caithfidh tú í a thógáil" adeirim. "Ní thógfad." "Caithfidh tú í a thógáil" adeir mise... — "Caint Ros Muc" http://www.celt.dias.ie/publications/cat/e/e2-12-1.html Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 267 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 12:23 am: |
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Ainm | Aois (i 1964) | Scoil | Gairm | Am thar sáile | Mícheál Ó Conaire | 68 | IV | Bádóir | 14 bl. i Meiriceá | Tomás Ó Conaire | 27 | Ardt. | Múinteoir | 2 mhí i Sasana |
Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 252 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 01:16 pm: |
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Hark! Another ex cathedra pronouncement from Lughaidh, our local GPL (Guardian of the Purity of the Language): quote:Meancóg atá ann Cairde de do chuid a chuir i gcló é, i bhfoclóir, ach tá tusa cinnte nach raibh siad dáiríre faoi?!? When Séamus Mac Mathúna and/or Ailbhe Ó Corráin get in touch with us and tell us that they were just kidding about Fadhb ar bith!, that including it in their dictionary was just a lark, then I'll listen. quote:ní dóigh liom go ndeirfeadh cainteoir maith é ná cainteoir dúchais Bhí mé in ann go leor samplaí de Fadhb ar bith! a aimsiú ar an idirlíon. Ach caithfidh gur cainteoirí sub-par gan mhaith iad uilig a d'úsáid é, na créatúir. Ní thabharfaidh mé ach sampla amháin duit, áfach, ó Bharra Ó Donnabháin: "Fadhb ar bith, go dtí le déanaí." Mura bhfuil a fhios agat cé hé an duine seo, féach: http://www.beo.ie/2003-09/michealdemordha.asp?print=true Ach truaillitheoir eile na teangan a bhí ann, gan dabht, dar leatsa. Éistigí le Lughaidh, mar is eisean an GPL. Right. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1924 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 01:48 pm: |
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An Bhriotáin locuta, causa finita! |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1927 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 04:29 pm: |
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Dála an sceil feicim go dtugann an Dálach "Anywhere" agus "Nowhere" mar brí air "Áit ar bith". |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 254 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 04:31 pm: |
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Uh, cé hé an Dálach? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1929 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 04:42 pm: |
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Ó Donaill -> an Dálach! |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 726 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 09:42 pm: |
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>When Séamus Mac Mathúna and/or Ailbhe Ó Corráin get in >touch with us and tell us that they were just kidding >about Fadhb ar bith!, that including it in their >dictionary was just a lark, then I'll listen. Meancóg chló, nó chuir siad "fadhb ar bith" ann siocair gur minic a chluineas siad san Ollscoil é, níl 's agam. Bhí Micheál O Murchú (a d'fhoghlaim Gaeilg lena mhuitir, dar liom, agus i Rann na Feirste agus leis na cainteoirí is fearr i dTír Chonaill) mar mhúinteoir orm fosta, agus is leis seo a d'fhoghlaim mé nach rabh ciall ar bith ag "fadhb ar bith" ach "any problem" agus nach féidir é a ráidht fá choinne "no problem". Muna n-aontann sibh leis sin, scríobhaigí chuige - níor bhuail mé ariamh le duine chomh heolach leis ar a' Ghaeilg. Tá 's agam cheana féin cad é a a fhreagar: "Ní Gaeilg ar bith é sin!" |
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Max
Member Username: Max
Post Number: 159 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 10:29 pm: |
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>>Tá 's agam cheana féin cad é a a fhreagar: "Ní Gaeilg ar bith é sin!" In which case, along with being one of the most learned speakers, he is also a purist and (consequently) a precriptivist. But as a linguist, you know better |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 255 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 10:56 pm: |
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quote:"Anywhere" agus "Nowhere" mar brí air "Áit ar bith". Agus faoi "nowhere" san fhoclóir Béarla-Gaeilge: "Áit ar bith, in aon bhall, in aon áit. (With neg. expressed or implied)" Tá an t-aon rud le léamh s.v. "nothing": "rud ar bith, dada, etc. (With neg. expressed or implied)". Nach ndéarfadh teangeolaí go bhfuil an "implied negative" céanna ag feidhmiú ins an dá abairt seo a leanas? "Céard atá inniu ann? Tada, a mhac, ach na ballaí." (ó Deoir Ghoirt an Deoraí le Colm Ó Ceallaigh, ar as Camus ó dhúchas dó) "Tá an ceart ar fad agat! Fadhb ar bith, a Mhórgacht!" (ón cholúnaí Balor ar Beo!) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1934 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:24 am: |
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Teanga atá inti. Tá níos mó ná slí amhain le rud a rá. (TMTOWTDI, mar a deir lucht Perl) |
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Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Member Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Post Number: 174 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:32 am: |
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Maidir liom féin, I could care less. ;-) |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 257 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:55 am: |
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quote:I could care less. No, no, no! EVERYONE knows that it should be "I couldn't care less." Ag MAGADH atá mé!!! |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 259 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 12:08 pm: |
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By the way, I've come up with some nice examples of "Duine ar bith" with no expressed negative used to mean "no one" (a bhuí le Google). I'll post them, má tá éinne ag iarraidh iad a iniúchadh. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1943 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 02:59 pm: |
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Duine ar bith á iarraidh? |
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Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Member Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Post Number: 177 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 04:20 pm: |
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Nó á n-iarraidh? B'fhéidir duine atá ar iarraidh. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 729 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:52 pm: |
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>By the way, I've come up with some nice examples >of "Duine ar bith" with no expressed negative used to >mean "no one" (a bhuí le Google). I'll post them, má tá >éinne ag iarraidh iad a iniúchadh. Níor chruthú ar bith é sin. Má chuartann tú foclaí le meancógaí, gheobhaidh tú cuid mhór fosta. Samplaí: Gaelige: 26 400 results with Google. Gaelgie: 53 results Eirennach: 531 Na hEirinn: 915 (cuid acu ar shuíomh "dáiríre", mar shuíomh Forás na Gaeilge...) foglaim: 467 (agus níl siad uilig i Sean-Ghaeilg!) Bhféidir: 238 Gaelteacht: 959 Gealtacht: 514 srl srl. Bhfuil na foclaí sin ceart, siocair gur minic a fhaightear le Google iad? |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 260 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 08:28 pm: |
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Mo chreach is mo chrá, brat deataigh mar sin ó dhuine atá ina theangeolaí! Ní bhaineann dearmaid chló leis an scéal. Shíl mé go mbeadh suim ag eolaí sna sonraí. Tá díomá orm. |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 268 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 01:00 pm: |
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Here's something more on the subject of the "implied negative" from Niall Ó Dónaill (FGB, aka an Foclóir Mór), s.v. "pioc": "Cad tá ort? Pioc. What's wrong with you? Nothing." |
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Rudi O Boyle Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 04:27 pm: |
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What about 'rud ar bith'? Máire: Cad a fuair tú? Pól: Mhuise, rud ar bith. Now this translates as: 'What did you get? - Nothing' (=no thing) EVEN though 'rud ar bith' technically means anything. By extension then, 'fadhb ar bith' can be translated into English as 'no problem'. Whether it is acceptable to equate this with the American English phrase "No problem' - meaning 'you're welcome, that's fine , it's not a problem, etc. is another matter. |
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Dalta Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 07:07 pm: |
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Is No Problem an American English phrase? It seems a fairly old thing to me, it was no problem, certainly 'no worries' is a Hiberno-Englishism. |
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Lars
Member Username: Lars
Post Number: 10 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 07:31 pm: |
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Well, literally, "ar bith" means neither "no" nor "any". It means "on world". It is used in a figurative sense to denote either something in question or something to be negated in Irish. To ask why "ar bith" can be used without any further negation to mean "no" is to think rather in English terms than in Irish ones, I guess. Fadhb ar bith, mar sin. :-) Lars |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 305 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 07:59 pm: |
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quote:Is No Problem an American English phrase? Is féidir gur thosaigh sé i Meiriceá. Tá no problema le cloisteáil sa Spáinnis anseo freisin, agus sílim go bhfuil (nó go raibh?) kein Problem agus pas de problème sách coitianta ar an Mór-Roinn. Deir na hAussies no worries, mura bhfuil dul amú orm. An bhfuil éinne ó Oz anseo? |
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