http://www.thepost.ie/ezineSBP/story.asp?storyid=7435


Interesting story in Sunday BUsiness Post parsing economics and language and the athbreith of Irish.

An-suimiúil! Go raibh maith agat, Dan. Chuir mé cóipeanna den alt seo chuig deichniúr cairde a mbeidh suim acu ann.

Spéisiúil is fíor é.. Afach domsa, it appears to paint a pretty picture when the paint isnt even dry. Gaeltacht Gaeilgeoirí numbers are still dropping 7rl.. The suggested wonderful renaissance is far too over-rated.. Mar shampla - na colaistí samhraidh - it appears to me as if he suggests the youth have a new passion for their langauge and will speak it non-stop sa Ghaeltacht. Rúbáiste!
Being able to speak the langauge of our "old enemy".. The language that was forced down our forefathers throats by the Brits.. Is the only good thing to come out of 800 years of oppresssion, murder, poverty 7rl..

Of course the language is central to our cultural identity.. It is to everyone's culture. But do 80% of muintir na hEireann use their cúpla focal. Nope. I really try and look on the bright side but i wont sit back and take everything at face value until i see some facts showing the decline of the last 800 years is over.

Léigh mé in alt san "Irish Independent" go bhfuil na Gaeilgeoirí sa Ghaeltacht méadaithe go dti 64,000 ó 63,000 ag an am céanna an bliain seo chaite.

Ní Creidim é!
Cathain ar léigh tú é sin a dhalta? An bhféadfá nasc a thabhairt? Cheapas nach raibh ach timpeall is 25,000 Gaeilgeoirí sa Ghaeltacht - - Tú cinnte nach raibh siad ag caint faoin bpobal ar fad toisc go bhfuil an-chuid Galldóirí ag fáil tithe sna Gaeltachta...
Bhéinn thar a bheith buíoch dá bhféadfá é seo a soléiriú.
GRMA.

Cad faoi Lucsamburg nó an Íoslainn nó an Éilbhéis nó an Iorua???? Nach bhfuil geilleagair iontach saibhir acu, nach bhfuil caighdéan an saol an-árd acu?Siadsan na tíre is saibhre san Eoraip. Níl an Béarla acu agus ní chuireann sé isteach go mór orthu. Níl aon bunús eacnamaíocht leis an alt sin. Bhí Éire bocht le haghaidh 200 bhliain agus Béarla acu agus mar a dúrt cheana bhí daoine ag dul ar imirce ó Bearna agus ó Liatroim cibé teanga a bhí á labhairt acu. Níor chóir díobh glacadh le alt David Williams ó thaobh geilleagar an domhan agus an Béarla a thugann an lámh in uachtar. Cad faoi an Coréa Theas no go deimhin an tSín? Níl aon pointe an tSín leanúint ar aghaidh mar níl an Béarla acu! ha ha ha

Tá an ceart a'at ansin a Liam..

Stupid article which says nothing. Me, as someone living in "Eastern Europe" find it almost insult what is written there.

quote:

Eastern Europe, which should be catching up quickly, is not doing so at any great pace.

Isn't growing at 7-9% per annum "any great pace"? The journalist should have checked the facts first, and then jump to such "global" conclusions. While not denying importance of English for international commerce there are loads of countries who are not English-speaking in theit everyday life, but they enjoy strong economic growth. Look at post-war Germany and Japan. In 1960-1980 it was South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore. Now it is "Eastern Europe" and China.
I don't really believe that if tomorrow all Irish start studying in Gaelscoileanna - the country's economic fortunes will be reversed. Look at India, which has made considerable efforts to promote new national language - Hindi. Yes, there are still English native speakers in India, but they are not a majority on any count. Majority speaks Hindi/Urdu, but as you know the country doesn't miss out on global economy opportunities. It is a myth wide spread in Ireland that without English you are nothing. Look at Scandinavia, where 80-90% speaks passable English, although nobody studies at English-medium schools. It is just a question of national identity. It seems the Irish don't think that Gaelainn is in any way necessary to feel Irish. Tá an brón mhór agam.

Ní aontaím leat A Rómáin..

'Sé Gaeilge fíor-chaint na hEireann! Irish people - living in Ireland - playing Irish games - going to Irish schools - speaking the Irish language is just a natural extention.

Ní thuigim, what you don't agree with. It is just a natural extension - fair point. So why on earth níl gaelainn acu?

McWillians has always been a leath-cheann. I just thought it interesting that he was enthusing about the youth of Ireland gla/mming onto irish...Dat's why I sent it on. I do not agree with almost anything he (and the snua ard set he represents)have to say. Glad to see I have some comh-ro/ghna (cronies).

Because mo chara, a nation / or cultures language is absolutely central to who they are. The people who live on this island are far too diversified to be classed as 'Gael' and perhaps the term 'Irish' is better suited. But as i said above. Irish is the language of Ireland. It is the language of the Irish people. As such, the language is central to our being as a people. Without it what are we but mere immatators of a foreign race, who were once, and still are to some, our enemy.
Gaeilge! Gaeilge! Gaeilge!
An dtuigeann tú anois mé a chara?!

Ach, a Dhomhnaill, ní fheictear an Ghaeilge mar chuid dár n-aitheantas a thuilleadh. People feel Irish by supporting the international sports teams and watching GAA. Speaking Irish doesn't come into it. It may as well not exist to a hell of a lot of people. They don't even notice it on the road signs, which is fair enough, why would you look at the Irish place-names if you'll never use them and it'll only confuse you when you're trying to drive a car. Other than that, where do they find Irish in their normal lives? Even TG4 is plastered with Béarla all over the place.

"ní fheictear an Ghaeilge mar chuid dár n-aitheantas a thuilleadh" Ní aontaím leatsa, 4/5 people are in favour of the language being nurtured and encouraged. E sin ráite, can 4/5 people speak Gaeilge? Gaeilge is EVERYWHERE - on the radio, tv, net, yes roadsigns, on public transport (and actually today i see our northern counterparts use bilingual signs on Ulsterbus ;) They learn it in school, Everyone knows someone who speaks Gaeilge on a daily basis.
In practice no its not a clear difference, but when you ask "Irish" people what's different between Ireland and England im sure Gaeilge would be mentioned alongside the rest of our wonderful cultural traits.. I don't blame Irish people for not being able to speak their language - Its the education system that has ensured the decline of our language..
Agus mo chara tá sé de dhualgas orainne Gaeilge a chur ar fud na h-áite agus í a chur ar ais ina gcluais!!
Labhair Amach As Gaeilge E Mo Chara!!

Ceart go leor, labhróad as Gaeilge, ach, ar ndóigh, is é sin an clár plé Béarla.
Níl Gaeilge i gcuile áit, tá sé sofheicthe agat, dar ndóigh ach is Gaeilgeoir thú agus tá baint agat leis an ngluais athbheochan. Don duine coitianta, ní fheiceann sé í. Ar teilifís, cén chaoi a bhféachódh sé ar TG4? Le déanta na fírinne, tá raidhse Béarla ar an gcainéal. Ní éisteann an gnáthdhuine le Raidió Gaelach. Fiú i mo shaol féin, ní éistim le raidió a lán ar bith. Ar an idirlín, ní fhéachódh sé an Ghaeilge muna lorgaíonn sé í.
Ní aithníonn mise éinne a labhraíonn Gaeilge de gnáth. Is mise an t-aon duine atá aithne agam air le haon Ghaeilge ar bith.
Sa lá atá inniu ann, tá daoine ag éirí níos cosúla le Sasana, níl an fuath ann is a bhí. Rinneadh suirbhé le déanaí agus dúirt daoine gur maith leo Sasana anois, mar thoradh an cultúr atá ar fud na háite. Ní dhéanann daoine idirdhealú mór idir an dá tír anois, tá an teilifís, an cultúr céanna, na réalta céanna againn. Nuair a iarrann daoine ar an raidió, cad is ea é chun a bheith Éireannach, níl tagairt ar bith don teanga, de gnáth, deir daoine 'nuair a bhfuil tú in ann imirt leis an bhfoireann náisiúnta sacair, is Éireannach thú'.

Agus, nuair a chríochnaíonn oideachas duine, is féidir leo an Ghaeilge a fhoglaim, ach ní dheanann siad a leithéad.

Hi, My name is Marla and I'm from B.C. Canada. I've been enjoying so much the discusion board as I begin my own journey to learn Irish. We have a split here in language as well. Our government has ruled both English and French to be national languages and must be taught in schools to a certain grade however we are so multicultural that the Asians consider Asian their national tongue, the Italians - Italian the French -French and so on. We find unity a terrible problem and I wonder if Ireland is also as diverse in culture? In business it has been driven into our thinking that to suceed we must speak both English and French, however, I don't believe the success of economics have proven to support that. For those of us interested in learning Irish and reclaiming a lost history and heritage here in Canada, boards such as this are helpful as there is nothing to assist here with all the French/English in the forefront. All the best... MKelly

What is the guy talking about? The article is full of errors that anyone with a basic schooling in economics can pick out. Just to set a few things straight

- Most of the richest countries in the world are not English speaking.
- The UK doesn't make the list of the world's ten richest nations. The UK doesn't even make the list of Europe's ten richest nations.
- The fastest economic growth by far in Europe is found preciselt in the Eastern countries that the author thinks aren't doing well.

For a more credible discussion about factors influencing economic growth, the author could look at things like the equality of income, the kind of government and possibly even the climate.

"The UK doesn't make the list of the world's ten richest nations. The UK doesn't even make the list of Europe's ten richest nations"

What, who are the 10 or more 1.5 trillion + economies in the world? In Europe Germany, France, England, Italy are each over 1 trillion. I bet Germany and France are in your top 10, so what gives?

He pointed out how stagnant Poland has turned out to be, and that few Eastern economies match Ireland in the pre 9/11 days.
That is not to say they are doing bad, tho.

"equality of income, the kind of government"

That is so socialist in outlook, not what Anglos like the irish or american are interested in, thus McWilliams possible lack of concern for it.

"What, who are the 10 or more 1.5 trillion + economies in the world? In Europe Germany, France, England, Italy are each over 1 trillion. I bet Germany and France are in your top 10, so what gives?"

What are you talking about? The richness of a country is measured in GDP/Capita. There are many occasions when just the GDP is more relevant, one example is when deciding the potential of a market. But not when measuring how rich countries are. Or is anyone going to argue that Ukraine is twice as rich as Ireland?

"He pointed out how stagnant Poland has turned out to be, and that few Eastern economies match Ireland in the pre 9/11 days.
That is not to say they are doing bad, tho"

May I suggest that you read the article? It doesn't mention Poland at all. Neither does it mention anything about 9/11. It says nothing about if Eastern European countries match Ireland. And finally, it states rather explicitly that Eastern European is not doing good.

"That is so socialist in outlook, not what Anglos like the irish or american are interested in, thus McWilliams possible lack of concern for it."

*sigh* There's nothing socialist or non-socialist about it. The discussion about how equal the distribution should be includes socialist and non-socialist arguments. The fact that is it a measure used in discussing economic growth has nothing to do with socialists or non-socialist outlooks.