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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (September-October) » Archive through September 06, 2005 » Translation? « Previous Next »

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Ejones521
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Username: Ejones521

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I went to the Irish Fair in St. Paul MN, USA and I got a shirt saying "Póg mo thóin." What does it mean?

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Drochfhuaimniú
Member
Username: Drochfhuaimniú

Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"kiss my ass"

"Ar ní gnáth orgain cen scéola do ernam esi do innisin scél dara n-esi is mesi dano in fer sin"

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 707
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

That's a literal translation by the way...

póg = kiss
mo = my
tóin = buttocks

Though in Irish, "tóin" receives much more informal use than does "buttocks" in English.

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Ejones521
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Username: Ejones521

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agaibh. That was faster than I expected. How would it be pronounced?

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Robert
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 02:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

/p(w)o:g m`ho:(i)n'/

(` after the m is not /m'/. It is not a pause either, more like 'uh', but definitly not a glottal stop. not a schwa either).

Velarised p /p/
off-glide (/u/) bi-labialisation makes it more towards like 'w'
long pure o /o:/
m is velarised /m/
(then an undefined 'uh')
h with a resonance of /o/ I think. It seems further from the cardinal than...
/o:/
on glide (/i/). it is like /i/ but feels longer. Lips spread in anticipation of...
/n'/ a palatised n

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Maidhc_Ó_g
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Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 58
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

In case you don't get IPA, Póg mo thoin - the first word is very close to the Enlish word pogo without the final letter. Mo sounds like muh and thoin is close to the word hone. Pog(o) muh hone.
This isn't exact, but I guarantee if you say it, any Irish speaker will get what you're sayin'.

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mahoo
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Posted From:
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

pugh muh hone

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 593
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 04:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Robert:

labial consonants (f, ph, f, m, b, bh, mh) when broad aren’t velarized but bilabialized. That makes exactly what you said (w-glide after them), but velarization only occurs after broad non-labial consonants.

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Quenduluin
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 04:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia dhaoibh!
Does anybody happen to know how to say "off-topic" in Irish?
(Yes, it is quite off-topic here, but I considered starting a new topic not necessary ;-)
Thank you

P.S. There is a music group "The Pogues"; their name is derived from the phrase "Póg mo thóin".

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Domhnall
Member
Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 53
Registered: 06-2005


Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'd say they got their name from the irish word "póg" ie a kiss..

Never ever literally translate..But use a word with a more genreal meaning and then type the word into one of the online dictionaries and you're flyin..

Ní Síocháin Go Saoirse.
Is í slánú na Gaeilge athghabháil na Saoirse

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1783
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Off topic:
That is off topic:

ní bhaineann sin leis an ábhar

or:

ní ar sin atáimid ag trácht

(Message edited by aonghus on August 17, 2005)

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 595
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Right spelling:

Ní AIR sin atáimid ag trácht.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1784
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post

airgh![sic] Ceann eile des na rudaí sin. GRMA, a Lughaidh.

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Diarmo
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Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 148
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Cad e an Ghaeilge ar hug no hugs?

D

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1787
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

barróg

barróg [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
fáscadh ar dhuine idir an dá lámh le cion air.

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 718
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Singular: barróg
Plural: barróga

Possesive case singular: barróige
Possesive case plural: barróg

I like hugs.
Is maith liom barróga.

I would like a hug.
Ba mhaith liom barróg.

I want a hug.
Táim ag iarraidh barróige.

I want hugs.
Táim ag iarraidh barróg.

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Robert
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Posted From:
Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 09:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Robert:

labial consonants (f, ph, f, m, b, bh, mh) when broad aren’t velarized but bilabialized. That makes exactly what you said (w-glide after them), but velarization only occurs after broad non-labial consonants.

Well by a way of distinction, I utilse a four way demarcation:

Velar (tongue touches back of mouth roof)
Velarised (back of tongue is highest part and pushes towards the back of mouth, tho not touching)
Palatal (tosach of tongue touches alveolar ridge and/or hard palate)
Palatalised (the tongue does not touh either but faces/points towards the aforemntioned frontal areas)

Palatograms I ahve show, under the scheme above, the labials to have velarised/palatised distinctions, not vealr/palatal; thus /p/ is velarised (as per the pictures).

Either you ahve not appreciated the distinction I made, or the broad labial consonats are either plain or (out of habit) velarised, with no real auditory difference accruing.

I appreciate that bi-labialisation makes the difference; I also see no physiological prerequisite banning velarisation simoultanosly, thus I ask did you pick up my post wrong?

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 634
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post

>Well by a way of distinction, I utilse a four way >demarcation:

>Velar (tongue touches back of mouth roof)
>Velarised (back of tongue is highest part and pushes towards the back of mouth, tho not touching)
>Palatal (tosach of tongue touches alveolar ridge and/or hard palate)
>Palatalised (the tongue does not touh either but faces/points towards the aforemntioned frontal areas)

Yeah, that's it. But velar and palatal are qualities of consonants (the place they are pronounced), although velarized and palatalized are the way you pronounce consonants, that aren't velar or palatalized. For example, slender d is palatalized but it isn't palatal since it's pronounced with the tongue touching the teeth (so it's called a dental consonant).

>Palatograms I ahve show, under the scheme above, the >labials to have velarised/palatised distinctions, not >vealr/palatal; thus /p/ is velarised (as per the >pictures).

If it was so, buí wouldn't be pronounced "bwee" but "b-ghee".

>I appreciate that bi-labialisation makes the >difference; I also see no physiological prerequisite >banning velarisation simoultanosly, thus I ask did you >pick up my post wrong?

I know it would be possible to pronounce "b-ghee" but that doesn't exist in Irish.

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Robert
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Posted From:
Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"velarized and palatalized are the way you pronounce consonants, that aren't velar or palatalized. For example, slender d is palatalized but it isn't palatal since it's pronounced with the tongue touching the teeth (so it's called a dental consonant"

I am aware of that, that is why I asked were you using the distinction I used between -ar/-al (actual) and -ised (valency or tendancy). i have made the contrasts myself based on utility value, but i now wonder how far their validity can be pushed, as I recently read a paper comparing Russian and Irish, which looked at velar vs. palatal, and palatal vs. plain. You seemed to be saying that the labial consoanants were plain but (bi)labialised to fit into the velar scheme. If that were so, I stated that some speakers may utilise a velar valence anyway.

However, since you stated that velarised /b/ in /b(w)ui:/ would be like /b(gh)ui:/, it seems we are not on the same wavelenght. I mean that the back of the tongue does NOT impact the velum, but that it merely is a shape similar to /u:/, meaing there is air between the tongue and the mouth roof.



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