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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (July-August) » Archive through July 13, 2005 » Oldest known Irish joke? « Previous Next »

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 66
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Here's a joke that is now internationally known, this particular version told by the late Krishnamurti:

“There are three monks, who had been sitting in deep meditation for many years amidst the Himalayan snow peaks, never speaking a word, in utter silence. One morning, one of the three suddenly speaks up and says, ‘What a lovely morning this is.’ And he falls silent again. Five years of silence pass, when all at once the second monk speaks up and says, ‘But we could do with some rain.’ There is silence among them for another five years, when suddenly the third monk says, ‘Why can’t you two stop chattering?”

Standish Hayes O'Grady gave this version in _Silva Gadelica_ (1892):

Three penitents resolved to quit the world for the ascetic life,
and so sought the wilderness. After exactly a year's silence
the first said, "'Tis a good life we lead." At the next year's
end the second answered, "It is so." Another year being run out,
the third exclaimed, "If I cannot have peace and quiet here I'll
go back to the world!"

It turns out that the text O'Grady translated was written down in 1709, as follows:

Triar mannach dorath diultadh don tsaoghal. Tiagait
a fasach do athghaira a pecadh fri Dia. Bhadar cin
labhradh fri araile co ceann bliaghna. Is ann isbeart
fear dibh fri aroile dia bliaghna 'Maith atámm,' ol se,
'amen' [...] co cionn bliaghnai. 'Is maith ón,' ar in
dara fear. Batar ann ier suidhe co ceann bliaghna.
'Toingim nam abith,' ar in treas fear, 'mine lecthi
ciunnus damh co n-imgeb in fasach uile dibh.' Finis.

But the language, although partially modernized, is clearly much early than 1709. In fact, it looks like Old or Middle Irish, dating from the 10th century or earlier. We'll be trying to pin down the date, and normalize the orthography accordingly, on the Old-Irish-L list. But I thought you guys might get a kick out of the thought that a joke now told about Himalayan monks seems to have gotten its start a thousand years ago in Ireland!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1628
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 04:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá an gleann bodhar agat, a Dennis! (mar sin a chuala mise é)

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 67
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Sin ceann nua domsa. An míneodh tú é? Cár chuala tú é?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1631
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 04:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Mar eireball ar an scéal úd. Triúr manach/díthreabhach sa bhfásach, agus duine acu ag labhairt gach seacht mbliain.

"Tá an gleann bodhar agaibh" a deir an triú duine, i. tá sibh ag déanamh barraíocht gleo.

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Denis Kay
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I've heard a slightly different version of this one:

A young man joins a particularly cloistered order of monks. The life is hard and lonely, but slowly he adjusts. However, after five years he approaches the abbot and asks for a pillow to sleep on. Another five years passes and the novice decides to go ask the abbot for a toothbrush. After another five years, the no longer young brother decides that he's had enough. He goes to the abbot and tells him he's leaving the order. "Fine," the abbot responds, "all you've done is bitch and whine since you got here!"

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 76
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

An-deas! GRMA!

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 77
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dála an scéil -- having discussing the text of the original joke on Old-Irish-L the last few days, I've just proposed dating it to ca. AD 850, based on the language. This may well be the earliest surviving joke in Ireland... and it still has legs, as they say in the entertainment industry.

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Socadán
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Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

That's a good one Dennis! Got a laugh out of me.

So you really think this joke dates that far back?

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Mhwombat
Member
Username: Mhwombat

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2005


Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Suimiúil! Seo an zen koan. It was included in a collection written late in the 13th century, and it's remarkably similar.


The pupils of the Tendai school used to study meditation before Zen entered Japan. Four of them who were intimate friends promised one another to observe seven days of silence.

On the first day all were silent. Their meditation had begun auspiciously, but when night came and the oil lamps were growing dim one of the pupils could not help exclaiming to a servant: "Fix those lamps."

The second pupil was surprised to hear th first one talk. "We are not supposed to say a word," he remarked.

"You two are stupid. Why did you talk?" asked the third.

"I am the only one who has not talked," concluded the fourth pupil.

Nuair a bheas wombait eisreachta, ní bheith wombait ach ag eisreachtaithe.
Ní uimhir mé! Is wombat saor mé!
http://www.nualeargais.ie/
http://mhwombat.blogspot.com/

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 78
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 01:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

>> So you really think this joke dates that far back? <<

I think it could, although that is a provocatively early date to assign it. There's nothing in the text to rule out such an early date, and the presence of the phrase "ier suidhe" (= íar suidiu) seems to place it on the border of Old and Middle Irish at the latest. The ball is still in the air.

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 79
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh míle maith agat as an gkoan, a Wombait.



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