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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (May-June) » Archive through June 08, 2005 » "Skeeoge" and some more questions. « Previous Next »

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AnFran
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Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 11:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post

In the Yeats' collection of irish folk & fairy tales there appears a strange word 'skeeoge' ('poor woman that was straining her supper in a skeeoge outside her cabin-door'). Is it something from irish? What does it mean?

Also, how to read the name of the mountain "Cooliagh"?

Also, in the same book there appears a word 'fort-field'. I can not find it in the dictionaries. Is it something special from Irish English, or just 'a field near a fort'?

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 54
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"Skeeoge" would have to be "sciathóg", a kind of broad, shallow basket that only folklorists know about now! Does "straining her supper" mean draining the boiled potatoes?

As for "fort-field", without having the context I can only guess that it might mean a "lios", the enclosed land in a "ráth" (ring-fort) or other enclosed ground attached to a large farm house. These terms generally refer to early/archaic (Iron Age, Early Medieval) dwellings.

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AnFran
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Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you! I think, you are right.

"Fort-field" I found in the tale "Master and Man":


...but he was afraid not to do his bidding, so up he got in the evening, and away he went to the Fort-field.

....

"But," said he, "if I may be so bold, sir, I would ask which is the way to your stable, for never a thing do I see but the fort here, and the old thorn tree in the comer of the field, and the stream running at the bottom of the hill, with the bit of bog over against us."

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AnFran
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 06:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

+ "and Billy Mac Daniel danced the Rinka at their wedding"

'Rinka' here is just 'dance', or some particualar dance?

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AnFran
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 06:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

+ in the same fairy-tale:

"Borram! Borram! Borram!" cried the little man three times (which, in English, means to become great)

Is 'borram' an irish word?

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Dáithí
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Username: Dáithí

Post Number: 103
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 10:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

In the dictionary Foclóir Scoile, the definition for the verb "borr" is to swell, grow.

http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/verb gives the definition as to "surge." The first-person form of the verb (I grow) would be "borraim."

Don't know if this is correct or not, but I thought I'd pass it along.

Dáithí

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Dáithí
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Username: Dáithí

Post Number: 104
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 10:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I missed a letter in the link above; it should be:

http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/verbs

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AnFran
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you!

The Imperative Mood: borraim - surge.

That's it.

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Philosophe
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Username: Philosophe

Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 07:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post

In the original post-Cooliagh

?"Koo lee-uh"

? meaning Cú liath- grey hound

this could be wrong!!!

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AnFran
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Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 07:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks!

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 56
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Cooliagh may well be a variant spelling of Coolagh, which is from Irish "cuailleach" = palisade, wall of pointed logs (think of the frontier fort in old Hollywood westerns). So the placename Coolaghmore = An Chuailleach Mhór = The Big Palisade. That's the closest I can come. Worth noting that -agh in anglicised placenames usually stands for Irish -ach.

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AnFran
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Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I mean this:

The Cooliagh, or White Mountain, forms part of the north-west boundary of Wexford. (c) Patrick Kennedy

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1562
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Joyce gives

Cúil [cooil], a corner, an angle; cool, cole.

http://www.booksulster.com/library/plnm/placenamesVocC.php

I found no Cooliagh on the ordnance survey map of North wexford, but several other Cool- placenames, some of which had Irish versions

Coolattin - Cúil Aitinn - gorse "corner", but appears on a mountain. There is a cúil buí - yellow corner nearby.

Dineen notes that Cúil is common in placenames.

I'd say it is Cúil liath "grey corner"

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Maidhc_Ó_g
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Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 04:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/lfic/lfic034.htm

This seemed interresting. Also,'cúilleann' is a word which means "blonde". Wouldn't that part of Ireland have spoken the now gone Leinster dialect. Which might explain the difference in the pronunciation of the last syllable - merely an argumentative stab in the dark.

-Maidhc.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1565
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post

"cúl fionn" is how that would be spelt now.

I came across that text, and the spelling is typical of 19th Century rendition of Irish or of English is what were then breac Gaeltachaí, i.e. English heavily influenced by Irish syntax and vocabulary. Also, the writer sometimes exaggerated the dialect.




cúl [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
an taobh thiar de rud (cúl do chinn, cúl an tí); droim (cúl a thabhairt do rud; thug sé cúl lena mhuintir); deireadh (cúl an ghluaisteáin; an féar cúil); siar, taobh thiar (dul ar gcúl; clog a chur ar gcúl; marcaíocht ar cúla); taca, taisce (cúl airgid; cúl taca; an dream atá ar a chúl); iargúltacht (coillte cúil); folt gruaige; (le cluichí) (i) cosantóir (ii) báire

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1566
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 07:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Another book I have on places names notes that Cúl (back or hill) and Cúil (nook, corner) are often confused, and gives two different Irish versions for two places called Coolbaun in english!

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AnFran
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post

So it's Cúl liath most probably? And how it is spelled then?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1568
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post

quote:

And how it is spelled then?



Cúl liath!

Or did you mean pronounced?

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AnFran
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Oh, yes, sorry :) How is it pronounced?



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