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Antaine
Member Username: Antaine
Post Number: 349 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 07:07 pm: |
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okay...i'm sitting down with buntús post-ceacht-8 for the first time and I have a question. it says things like "níl tú tinn?" or "tá sé fuar?" is it ever proper to ask a question using tá/níl instead of an bhfuil/nach bhfuil? I can't figure out if it's ok (like tá mé tuirseach vs tá tuirse orm) or if it is simply being taught while "bhfuil" vocabulary hasn't been taught yet. I have been under the impression that questions *must* use the interrogative form of the verb. is that incorrect? |
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James
Member Username: James
Post Number: 213 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 08:24 pm: |
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Antaine, Check again...Those are definitely statements, not questions. Your Irish is far better than mine so I think your instincts are right. I'm in the ER, away from my books, but if I remember correctly from my buntús those were used as statements. Are you sure they're being used as questions? Le meas, James |
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Seán51
Member Username: Seán51
Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 08:44 pm: |
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Antaine: It is not technically correct usage but the same thing is done sometimes in English where you make a statement but you are really asking the person if something is true. For example, you may have overheard a conversation between two people and then you speak to the person right after that with a statement question like "You're sick". It is really a question but in the form of a statement. People do the same in Irish. Seán |
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Antaine
Member Username: Antaine
Post Number: 350 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 09:15 pm: |
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I know it's done idiomatically in english, and i'm sure in irish too...it just seemed odd to do that in a book for beginners purporting to use the standard |
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James
Member Username: James
Post Number: 214 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 09:43 pm: |
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Antaim leat, Antaine. If it's a question, it must use the interogative particle...ie; An bhfuil or Nach bhfuil. It's not really up for debate, as far as I know. In as much as Buntús has a great reputation, I can't imagine them using any colloquiallism or idiomatic expressions that aren't grammatically correct. Le meas, James |
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Antaine
Member Username: Antaine
Post Number: 351 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 11:10 pm: |
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me neither, and yet buntús p11 Níl Seán leat inniu? Níl, tá sé tinn. Níl sé an-tinn? p12 Níl tú fliuch? p13 Tá tú go maith arís? and so on and so forth |
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James
Member Username: James
Post Number: 216 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 11:47 pm: |
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Wow! To me, that's just a glaring example of a common beginner's mistake. I can't imagine that Buntús missed that in the editing! Maybe a native speaker, or someone of Lucas's caliber can shed some light on this. |
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Antaine
Member Username: Antaine
Post Number: 352 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 12:13 am: |
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if it is truly not permissible to do, then perhaps it was simply a measure to facilitate the example conversations prior to the requisite vocabulary...still a questionable move... |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1446 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 04:15 am: |
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Buntús is a conversation book, isn't it? People cut corners in conversation. Níl Seán leat inniu? Seán is not with you today? (Implied: I expected him) Níl, tá sé tinn. Níl sé an-tinn? He is not very ill (implied I assume) Long version: Níl sé an-tinn, an bhfuil? The statements are being made, implying the expected answer. And the question would be carried by tone of voice. |
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Pádraig
Member Username: Pádraig
Post Number: 160 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 03:43 pm: |
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Just like English. |
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