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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (May-June) » Archive through May 20, 2005 » Buntús question « Previous Next »

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 349
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

okay...i'm sitting down with buntús post-ceacht-8 for the first time and I have a question.

it says things like "níl tú tinn?" or "tá sé fuar?"

is it ever proper to ask a question using tá/níl instead of an bhfuil/nach bhfuil? I can't figure out if it's ok (like tá mé tuirseach vs tá tuirse orm) or if it is simply being taught while "bhfuil" vocabulary hasn't been taught yet.

I have been under the impression that questions *must* use the interrogative form of the verb. is that incorrect?

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James
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Username: James

Post Number: 213
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 08:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Antaine,

Check again...Those are definitely statements, not questions. Your Irish is far better than mine so I think your instincts are right.

I'm in the ER, away from my books, but if I remember correctly from my buntús those were used as statements.

Are you sure they're being used as questions?

Le meas,

James

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Seán51
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Username: Seán51

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 08:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Antaine:
It is not technically correct usage but the same thing is done sometimes in English where you make a statement but you are really asking the person if something is true. For example, you may have overheard a conversation between two people and then you speak to the person right after that with a statement question like "You're sick". It is really a question but in the form of a statement. People do the same in Irish.

Seán

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 350
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I know it's done idiomatically in english, and i'm sure in irish too...it just seemed odd to do that in a book for beginners purporting to use the standard

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James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 214
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 09:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Antaim leat, Antaine.

If it's a question, it must use the interogative particle...ie; An bhfuil or Nach bhfuil. It's not really up for debate, as far as I know.

In as much as Buntús has a great reputation, I can't imagine them using any colloquiallism or idiomatic expressions that aren't grammatically correct.

Le meas,

James

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 351
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 11:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

me neither, and yet

buntús p11

Níl Seán leat inniu?
Níl, tá sé tinn.
Níl sé an-tinn?

p12
Níl tú fliuch?

p13
Tá tú go maith arís?

and so on and so forth

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James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 216
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 11:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Wow! To me, that's just a glaring example of a common beginner's mistake. I can't imagine that Buntús missed that in the editing!

Maybe a native speaker, or someone of Lucas's caliber can shed some light on this.

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 352
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 12:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

if it is truly not permissible to do, then perhaps it was simply a measure to facilitate the example conversations prior to the requisite vocabulary...still a questionable move...

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1446
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 04:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Buntús is a conversation book, isn't it? People cut corners in conversation.

Níl Seán leat inniu? Seán is not with you today? (Implied: I expected him)
Níl, tá sé tinn.
Níl sé an-tinn? He is not very ill (implied I assume) Long version: Níl sé an-tinn, an bhfuil?

The statements are being made, implying the expected answer. And the question would be carried by tone of voice.

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 160
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 03:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Just like English.



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