mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (May-June) » Archive through May 08, 2005 » Need advice for translating that :P « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Thea
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm unable to translate an old irish proverb that says:
"L'espoir c'est ce qui meurt en dernier"
Here's the translation in english:
"The hope is what's dying at last"
I'm not quite sure about it but whatever I just want some informations so... If somebody could help me it will be appreciated be sure of that!
Thanks in advance!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 197
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thea,

You've got me confused...what you've put up is french. I'm assuming you understand the french and want it put in to Irish???

Le meas,

james

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1333
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 05:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thea,

shouldn't that be "Hope is the last thing that dies?"

Otherwise I share James' confusion.

Assuming the same as him, I would say

'Sé an dóchas an ní deiridh a theipeann

Hope is the last thing that fails


But I'm sure there is a better proverb which expresses that sense.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 152
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

How about...

Mairíonn an dóchas go síoraí.

Hope lasts forever.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1343
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 04:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post

maireann - lives/lasts

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 153
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is there a rule to determine when to use "íonn" vs "eann?"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 521
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 07:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post

quote:

Is there a rule to determine when to use "íonn" vs "eann?"



Yes. Also with "fidh" versus "óidh".

4 types of verb:

1) 1 syallable

briseann
dúnann
glanann
maireann

2) 2 syllables ending in "igh"

ceannaíonn
brostaíonn
deisíonn
rothaíonn

3) 2 syllables ending in "áil"

traenáileann
drilleáileann

4) The remaining verbs are those which have 2 syllables but no particular ending. These verbs are "squeezed":

oscail = osclaíonn
cosain = cosnaíonn

The last consonant is squeezed against the second last consonant, removing the vowels in between. Then you stick "íonn" onto it. If you can't pronounce it, then don't squeeze it, eg.:

foghlaim ... foghlmaíonn
(don't squeeze)

foghlaim = foghlaimíonn

I've never come across a verb with more than two syllables... if you do find one... improvise!

Here's a few future tense examples:

brisfidh
dúnfidh

ceannóidh
brostóidh

osclóidh
cosnóidh
foghlaimeoidh (don't squeeze!)

traenáilfidh
drilleáilfidh

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 154
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanx, Shoe Man. As ever; concise, direct, and easy to understand.


The only thing missing, possibly, is an explanation of why eann is used in some cases while ann is used in others. I understand the broad and slender concept, but some newcomers might be confused.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 528
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

There's two forms of each suffix, the "slender" form and the "broad" form.

A vowel can be classified as either "broad" or "slender". Here's the broad ones:

a o u á ó ú

Here's the slender ones:

i e í é

If you have multiple vowels together, as in:

ag teacht

then the vowel collection "ea" is slender on the left side and broad on the right side. Anyway, there's a spelling rule in Irish called "caol le caol, leathan le leathan" = "slender with slender, broad with broad". What this means is that if vowels are seperated by a consonant, then the two vowels must be of the same type. First instance, take the verb "bris". Let's put it in the present tense:

Briseann

If we'd used "ann" instead of "eann", we'd end up with:

Brisann

But that would be wrong, because the letter "s" is boxed in by two vowels of different type. You can only box in a consonant (or multiple consonants) with vowels of the same type. This doesn't just apply to conjugating verbs, but to the whole language. There's very few exceptions to this rule... but here's one of them:

Gaeilge
Gaeltacht

When you've got "ae", it's treated as if its right-hand side is broad.

traenáil

instead of:

traeneáil


Here's the two forms:

Slender --- Broad
eann --- ann
íonn --- aíonn
fidh --- faidh
eoidh --- óidh ("eoidh" is not a typo, there's no fada on that 'o')


Now if you're wondering why this spelling rule exists, it's to do with whether or not a consonant is broad or slender. If a consonant is boxed in by slender vowels, then you've got a slender consonant. If a consonant is boxed in by broad vowels, then you've got a broad consonant.

Here's an example from English:

suit (that's a broad 's')
shoot (that's a slender 's')

These would (hypothetically) be written in Irish as:

sút
siút

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Thea
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

:( sorry... Yeah, I wanted the translation in irish about a proverb with the word hope in it but I missed up the translation of my proverb in english :)
It doesn't matters anyway... Thanks for your translations Aonghus and Pádraig! I will save that for further used!



©Daltaí na Gaeilge