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Dancas1
Member Username: Dancas1
Post Number: 46 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 11:56 pm: |
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A Chairde: I have been struggling with this 13th-15th century poem, Íocadh Críost cumaoin a mháthar. by Anon. A adhbhar d'iomchar na croiche i gcoinne an bháis do bhí ag drud; do bhí teas na ngrás 'ga gharadh bás don treas tamhan go dtug. Any help would be appreciated I am especially baffled by the final 2 lines: do bhí teas na ngrás 'ga gharadh bás don treas tamhan do dtug. ' ga garadh? I found the poem on the CELT site but could not find a translation. I am not being lazy, I spent quite a while tryting to figure it out. Thanks in advance for any help. DC
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1218 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 03:39 am: |
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The heat of grace was cooking him (i.e. consuming) would be my guess. Given that Jesus died at the third hour, my reading of the last line would be "he died at the third hour" |
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 197 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 11:28 am: |
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Warming him. "Suidh ag an teinidh agus déan do ghoradh." Until he gave up the ghost (an treas tamhan = the third body = an treas duine = "one of the Three Persons")? Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Dancas1
Member Username: Dancas1
Post Number: 47 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 04:59 pm: |
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A Pheadar, Aonghus a chairde: go raibh maith agaibh. Can 'ga gharadh be 'ga ghoradh? I thought 'ga gharadh had something to do with "gar" nearness, a short while (early); or gar, short, near, soon. Is 'ga gharadh an alternative orthography for goradh, heating? This is why "'ga gharadh" had me stumped. GAR means short, near, soon... So if 'ga gharadh can be parsed as 'ga ghoradh: cooking, consuming, it's a whole new ballgame. "Consuming" is certainly more poetic in English than cooking. As you know, Goradh also means act of heating, warming, fever heat...and "fit of illness" (Dineen, p. 562.) The trope is definitely heat-burning-consuming... Do bhí teas na ngrás 'ga ghAradh... Teas na ngrás: warmth, heat of grace, as in heat of the moment..? Rather than "pain, passion, ardor of grace?" Dineen defines teas as "pain," as well as "heat," etc. O'Donaill parses it as "ardor, passion," as well as "heat warmth." But the poem reads 'ga gharadh ?? The warmth, ardor, passion of grace was near? So that was my question, and I wasn't clear in my query. Why 'ga gharadh --? Again it does not read 'ga ghoradh? but 'ga ghAradh +++ An treas tamhan, the third body. Of course! Peadar, I was stupidly drawn to a version of "treas" meaning "a fray, a contest a bout," forgetting my Cathechism and the concept of "an treas duine." This seems to be it. +++ There are translations on CELT, but not for this particular poem. I will hunt around. Thanks again for the help. As ever one question brings twenty more. I am still puzzled by the meaning of "'ga ghAradh." Of course the general meaning of "near, aprroaching, short, close by" works in terms of meaning in the poem, but how does one get that from a construction like 'ga gharadh? Thanks again. Dan DC
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 201 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 05:42 pm: |
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Alternation between short -a- and -o- is very common: croiceann, craiceann; cloigeann, claigeann; gairm, goirm; fascadh, foscadh. "An teine a nì duine dha fhèin, 's e chòir a gharadh ris." http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/tbh/beulchainnt/index.shtml?page=prog6_2 ["It is a man's right to warm himself by the fire that he makes for himself."] "Agus lean Peadar e fad as, gu ruig cùirt an àrd-shagairt; `s bha e `na shuidhe maille ris na seirbhisich aig an teine, agus ga gharadh fhèin." http://www.christianisrael.com/gaelic_scots/B41C014.htm I also thought "an treas tamhan" might mean "the fray of bodies," that is, "the strife of men"; but yes, it does seem to mean "the third body" in the sense of "one of the Three Persons," the incarnate Son. Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Dancas1
Member Username: Dancas1
Post Number: 48 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 12:48 pm: |
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A Chairde: Go raibh maith agaibh. DC
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