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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (March-April) » Archive through April 03, 2005 » Cad é an ciall ar ceathrúnacha? « Previous Next »

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 155
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 12:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I am reading an Ó Grainna short story and I found this sentence.
Diabhal bean i sé ceathrúnacha déag na Rosann a phósfadh é.
I found the underlined expression in Aíbhe Ó Corráin's A Concordance of Idiomatic Expressions in the Writings of Séamus Ó Grianna. So it could be translated as
Devil a woman that would marry him in the entire Rosses.
I am still curious, what is the meaning of ceathrúnacha? Luadhaigh, is this a Donegal expression?

Mise le meas,

Lúcas
Mas miste leat ceartaigh mo chuid Gaeilge.

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Maidhc Ó G.
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Posted From: 64.12.116.136
Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 01:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

From An Foclóir Beag :
Is foirm ceathrúnach atá ceathrúnacha.
[ aidiach den chéad díochlaonadh ] ina ceathrúna

ceathrúnacha [ainmneach iolra / ginideach tréaniolra ]


Pure guessing on my part, but it seems to me that there isn't a women to marry him if he were to search the four corners of the world four times over. (The sixteen 1/4s of the Rosses.)

-Maidhc.

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 156
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Mhaidhc, a chara,

quote:

... the four corners of the world four times over.



Interesting guess.

Or, is ceathrúnacha a Donegal variant of cathracha, the plural of cathair, city? Are there 16 cities in the Rosses?

Mise le meas,

Lúcas
Mas miste leat ceartaigh mo chuid Gaeilge.

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 160
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

BONUS QUESTION:
Ó Grianna short stories use the phrase
sna trí phobal
to refer to the three parishes around his home town, Rinn na Feirste. What are they?

Mise le meas,

Lúcas
Mas miste leat ceartaigh mo chuid Gaeilge.

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
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Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 180
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

According to Niall Ó Dónaill:

"Ceathrú" = fourth part of a "baile biataigh."

"Baile biataigh" = public hospitaller's land; ancient land division equated to 480 Irish acres of arable land.

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1186
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 02:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I would wager a small sum that both phrases carry the conventional meaning "everywhere in X".

Sometimes it is three, sometimes seven parishes.

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
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Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 181
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 03:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Le méadú an phobail roinneadh an dúiche ina leathbhailte, agus ansin arís ina ceathrúnacha.
_____

Nuair a glacadh leis na ceathrúnacha mar thomhas ranna fágadh an seanainm, do ghnáth, ar an cheathrún ina raibh a bpríomháit chónaithe ag na daoine sul ar scoilteadh an leathbhaile…
_____

Ní hionann sin is go raibh ceathrúnacha an Logáin ní ba mhó ná ceathrúnacha na Rosann; ba mhó i bhfad na ceathrúnacha thiar.
_____

Bhí na ceathrúnacha rannta arís ina mbailte bó, seisreacha, gníomha, agus mionranna eile anuas go dtí na hiomairí treabhrach.
_____

Mhair fuíoll ranna de na seancheathrúnacha gur stad an buailteachas sa 19ú céad, agus ina dhiaidh sin féin go dtí gur imigh na tiarnaí talaimh. In 1833-34 chuir an Measadóir Deachún in ord le chéile cuid mhór de na bailte a bhí i gcomhcheathrúnacha sa Mheánaois.
_____

‘Shuigh an Caiptín Dutton,’ deir an tuarascáil, ‘na ceathrúnacha agus na bailte sin uilig leis na dearbh-Éireannaigh, sa bhreis ar an cheathrú cuid (.i. na Rosa Uachtaracha) de Fhearann Mhór na Rosann, d'ainneoin na gcoiníollach a cuireadh ar an Iarla ina leitreacha gabhála…
_____

I gcuid de na ceathrúnacha fágadh na príomhbhailte gan ainmniú ar chor ar bith (an Charraig Fhionn, Mullach Dubh, Mullach Dearg, an Mháigh, srl.); i gcupla cás níor hainmníodh ach na talta féaraigh (na Maolacha agus an Caiseal).
_____

Ar lá a bháis bhí mainear na Rosann aige agus ba leis mar fhearann gabhála, agus le bheith fána aire go ginearálta, an áit ar a dtugtar Fearann Mór na Rosann ina bhfuil na bailte cónaithe, na ceathrúnacha, na bailte bó, na seisreacha, na gníomha, agus na talta, ranna agus sealbha seo eile: — Ceathrú Uachtarach na Farraige: (Ainm eile: Sohercas (?); Shercoross, 9 Jac. I; Shercas, 32 Car. I.)

— Niall Ó Domhnaill, “Na Glúnta Rosannacha”
http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/tobar/

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
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Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 182
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 03:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"na trí phobal : Cloch Cheann Fhaodhlaigh, Gaoth Dobhair, Rann na Feairste"
http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/brian/nuair.doc

[.i. Cloch Cheannaola, Gaoth Dobhair, Rann na Feirste]

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 162
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 09:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Pheadair, a chara,

Ní aontíonn Ailbhe Ó Corráin le Brian Mac Lochlann go hiomlán . Scríobh Ailbhe gur iad na trí phobal Gaoth Dobhair, na Rosa, agus Cloich Chionnaola. Is ceantair iad na áiteanna seo ach is baile fearainn agus leithinis é Rann na Féirste de réir Patrick McKay. Is pobal é Gaoth Dobhair freisin.
Ailbhe Ó Corráin does not agree with Brain Mac Lochlann entirerly. Ailbhe wrote that the three parishes are Gweedore, the Rosses, and Cloghnaneely. According to Patrick McKay, these places are districts but Rinnafarset is a townlands and a peninsula. Gweedore is also a parish.
Ailbhe Ó Corráin, A Concordance of Idiomatic Expression in the Writings of Séamus Ó GrainnaThe Queen's University of Belfast, 1989, p. 270.

Patrick McKay, A Dictionary of Ulster Place-Names, The Queen's University of Belfast, 1999, pp. 42, 80, 125, 126.
Cén duine a cheapann sibh go bhfuil ceart agat? Ailbhe, Brian nó Aonghus?
Who do you think is right? Ailbhe, Brian or Aonghus?
quote:

I would wager a small sum that both phrases carry the conventional meaning "everywhere in X".

Sometimes it is three, sometimes seven parishes


Mise le meas,

Lúcas
Mas miste leat ceartaigh mo chuid Gaeilge.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1192
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 04:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Is dóigh liom go bhfeadfadh an cheart a bheith agamsa agus ag Peadar!
Tá "seacht paróistí" feicthe agam ag scríobhnóirí eile.

Both my view and Peadars could be correct - they are not contradictory.

I have seen other writers use "seven parishes" with the meaning "all around the area!.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 234
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 10:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

>Ailbhe Ó Corráin does not agree with Brain Mac Lochlann >entirerly. Ailbhe wrote that the three parishes are >Gweedore, the Rosses, and Cloghnaneely. According to >Patrick McKay, these places are districts but >Rinnafarset is a townlands and a peninsula. Gweedore is >also a parish.


The parishes are Gweedore, the Rosses and Cloghaneely.
Rannafast is a village in the northern part of the Rosses. I'm not sure that the Rosses is a parish, i wonder if they don't say "paróiste Anagaire"... I don't remember. Chan minic a chuaigh mé ar a’ taobh theas do dh’Abhainn Ghaoth Dobhair, leis an fhírinne a ráidht.

In these 3 parishes there are villages: in Gweedore, Bunbeg, Derrybeg, Dunlewey, Mín a’ Chladaigh, Dobhar...
in the Rosses: Rannafast, Anagaire, a’ Mullach Dearg...
in Cloghaneely: Gort a’Choirce, an Croisbhealach, etc.

A foc, níl ’s agam níos mó cad é ’n rud "townland", níl mórán céille aige’n fhocal sin domh... Ní townland í Gaoth Dobhair, siocair nach bhfuil baile ar bith a mbeadh ’n t-ainm sin air, is iad na bailte is mó i bparóiste Ghaoth Dobhair an Bun Beag, na Machaireacha agus Doirí Beaga. Agus is sraith bailte beaga iad sin, chan fheictear teorainn ar bith eatarthu, tá bealach fada ó thuaidh agus toighthí ar achan taobh duit ’s tú ’gabháil ó thuaidh ’s chan fheiceann tú cá huair a fhágas tú ’n Bun Beag ’s cá huair a thig tú isteach sna Machaireacha srl. Ach tchíonn tú ’n teorainn theas den Bhun Bheag agus an teorainn thuaidh de Dhoirí Beaga siocair nach bhfuil a’ méid sin toighthí níos mó sa deisceart agus sa tuaisceart don ghrúpa bailte sin. Abair, tchítear níos mó páirceann (bhuel ní páirceannaí atá iontu ach abair, níl toighthí in achan áit níos mó mar a bhí aroimhe) agus tú ar a’ taobh thuaidh nó theas den tsraith sin. Is é ’n chéad teach mór den tsraith sin sa deisceart Tigh Hiúdaí Bhig agus a’ teach mór deireanach sa tuaisceart an tOllmhargadh "Gallagher’s". Eadar an dá theach mhóra sin, níl ach toighthí ar fad in aice lena chéile.

:)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1198
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 05:01 am:   Edit Post Print Post

townland = baile fearann, i. ní gá go mbeadh sráidbhaile ná clachán i gceist.



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