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Lúcas
Member Username: Lúcas
Post Number: 155 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 12:22 pm: |
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I am reading an Ó Grainna short story and I found this sentence. Diabhal bean i sé ceathrúnacha déag na Rosann a phósfadh é. I found the underlined expression in Aíbhe Ó Corráin's A Concordance of Idiomatic Expressions in the Writings of Séamus Ó Grianna. So it could be translated as Devil a woman that would marry him in the entire Rosses. I am still curious, what is the meaning of ceathrúnacha? Luadhaigh, is this a Donegal expression? Mise le meas, Lúcas Mas miste leat ceartaigh mo chuid Gaeilge.
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Maidhc Ó G.
Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 01:39 pm: |
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From An Foclóir Beag : Is foirm ceathrúnach atá ceathrúnacha. [ aidiach den chéad díochlaonadh ] ina ceathrúna ceathrúnacha [ainmneach iolra / ginideach tréaniolra ] Pure guessing on my part, but it seems to me that there isn't a women to marry him if he were to search the four corners of the world four times over. (The sixteen 1/4s of the Rosses.) -Maidhc. |
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Lúcas
Member Username: Lúcas
Post Number: 156 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 03:01 pm: |
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A Mhaidhc, a chara, quote:... the four corners of the world four times over. Interesting guess. Or, is ceathrúnacha a Donegal variant of cathracha, the plural of cathair, city? Are there 16 cities in the Rosses? Mise le meas, Lúcas Mas miste leat ceartaigh mo chuid Gaeilge.
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Lúcas
Member Username: Lúcas
Post Number: 160 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 05:11 pm: |
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BONUS QUESTION: Ó Grianna short stories use the phrase sna trí phobal to refer to the three parishes around his home town, Rinn na Feirste. What are they? Mise le meas, Lúcas Mas miste leat ceartaigh mo chuid Gaeilge.
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 180 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 11:04 pm: |
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According to Niall Ó Dónaill: "Ceathrú" = fourth part of a "baile biataigh." "Baile biataigh" = public hospitaller's land; ancient land division equated to 480 Irish acres of arable land. Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1186 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 02:18 pm: |
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I would wager a small sum that both phrases carry the conventional meaning "everywhere in X". Sometimes it is three, sometimes seven parishes. |
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 181 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 03:10 pm: |
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Le méadú an phobail roinneadh an dúiche ina leathbhailte, agus ansin arís ina ceathrúnacha. _____ Nuair a glacadh leis na ceathrúnacha mar thomhas ranna fágadh an seanainm, do ghnáth, ar an cheathrún ina raibh a bpríomháit chónaithe ag na daoine sul ar scoilteadh an leathbhaile… _____ Ní hionann sin is go raibh ceathrúnacha an Logáin ní ba mhó ná ceathrúnacha na Rosann; ba mhó i bhfad na ceathrúnacha thiar. _____ Bhí na ceathrúnacha rannta arís ina mbailte bó, seisreacha, gníomha, agus mionranna eile anuas go dtí na hiomairí treabhrach. _____ Mhair fuíoll ranna de na seancheathrúnacha gur stad an buailteachas sa 19ú céad, agus ina dhiaidh sin féin go dtí gur imigh na tiarnaí talaimh. In 1833-34 chuir an Measadóir Deachún in ord le chéile cuid mhór de na bailte a bhí i gcomhcheathrúnacha sa Mheánaois. _____ ‘Shuigh an Caiptín Dutton,’ deir an tuarascáil, ‘na ceathrúnacha agus na bailte sin uilig leis na dearbh-Éireannaigh, sa bhreis ar an cheathrú cuid (.i. na Rosa Uachtaracha) de Fhearann Mhór na Rosann, d'ainneoin na gcoiníollach a cuireadh ar an Iarla ina leitreacha gabhála… _____ I gcuid de na ceathrúnacha fágadh na príomhbhailte gan ainmniú ar chor ar bith (an Charraig Fhionn, Mullach Dubh, Mullach Dearg, an Mháigh, srl.); i gcupla cás níor hainmníodh ach na talta féaraigh (na Maolacha agus an Caiseal). _____ Ar lá a bháis bhí mainear na Rosann aige agus ba leis mar fhearann gabhála, agus le bheith fána aire go ginearálta, an áit ar a dtugtar Fearann Mór na Rosann ina bhfuil na bailte cónaithe, na ceathrúnacha, na bailte bó, na seisreacha, na gníomha, agus na talta, ranna agus sealbha seo eile: — Ceathrú Uachtarach na Farraige: (Ainm eile: Sohercas (?); Shercoross, 9 Jac. I; Shercas, 32 Car. I.) — Niall Ó Domhnaill, “Na Glúnta Rosannacha” http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/tobar/ Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 182 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 03:25 pm: |
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Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Lúcas
Member Username: Lúcas
Post Number: 162 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 09:47 am: |
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A Pheadair, a chara, Ní aontíonn Ailbhe Ó Corráin le Brian Mac Lochlann go hiomlán . Scríobh Ailbhe gur iad na trí phobal Gaoth Dobhair, na Rosa, agus Cloich Chionnaola. Is ceantair iad na áiteanna seo ach is baile fearainn agus leithinis é Rann na Féirste de réir Patrick McKay. Is pobal é Gaoth Dobhair freisin. Ailbhe Ó Corráin does not agree with Brain Mac Lochlann entirerly. Ailbhe wrote that the three parishes are Gweedore, the Rosses, and Cloghnaneely. According to Patrick McKay, these places are districts but Rinnafarset is a townlands and a peninsula. Gweedore is also a parish. Ailbhe Ó Corráin, A Concordance of Idiomatic Expression in the Writings of Séamus Ó GrainnaThe Queen's University of Belfast, 1989, p. 270. Patrick McKay, A Dictionary of Ulster Place-Names, The Queen's University of Belfast, 1999, pp. 42, 80, 125, 126. Cén duine a cheapann sibh go bhfuil ceart agat? Ailbhe, Brian nó Aonghus? Who do you think is right? Ailbhe, Brian or Aonghus? quote:I would wager a small sum that both phrases carry the conventional meaning "everywhere in X". Sometimes it is three, sometimes seven parishes Mise le meas, Lúcas Mas miste leat ceartaigh mo chuid Gaeilge.
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1192 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 04:40 am: |
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Is dóigh liom go bhfeadfadh an cheart a bheith agamsa agus ag Peadar! Tá "seacht paróistí" feicthe agam ag scríobhnóirí eile. Both my view and Peadars could be correct - they are not contradictory. I have seen other writers use "seven parishes" with the meaning "all around the area!. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 234 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 10:17 pm: |
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>Ailbhe Ó Corráin does not agree with Brain Mac Lochlann >entirerly. Ailbhe wrote that the three parishes are >Gweedore, the Rosses, and Cloghnaneely. According to >Patrick McKay, these places are districts but >Rinnafarset is a townlands and a peninsula. Gweedore is >also a parish. The parishes are Gweedore, the Rosses and Cloghaneely. Rannafast is a village in the northern part of the Rosses. I'm not sure that the Rosses is a parish, i wonder if they don't say "paróiste Anagaire"... I don't remember. Chan minic a chuaigh mé ar a’ taobh theas do dh’Abhainn Ghaoth Dobhair, leis an fhírinne a ráidht. In these 3 parishes there are villages: in Gweedore, Bunbeg, Derrybeg, Dunlewey, Mín a’ Chladaigh, Dobhar... in the Rosses: Rannafast, Anagaire, a’ Mullach Dearg... in Cloghaneely: Gort a’Choirce, an Croisbhealach, etc. A foc, níl ’s agam níos mó cad é ’n rud "townland", níl mórán céille aige’n fhocal sin domh... Ní townland í Gaoth Dobhair, siocair nach bhfuil baile ar bith a mbeadh ’n t-ainm sin air, is iad na bailte is mó i bparóiste Ghaoth Dobhair an Bun Beag, na Machaireacha agus Doirí Beaga. Agus is sraith bailte beaga iad sin, chan fheictear teorainn ar bith eatarthu, tá bealach fada ó thuaidh agus toighthí ar achan taobh duit ’s tú ’gabháil ó thuaidh ’s chan fheiceann tú cá huair a fhágas tú ’n Bun Beag ’s cá huair a thig tú isteach sna Machaireacha srl. Ach tchíonn tú ’n teorainn theas den Bhun Bheag agus an teorainn thuaidh de Dhoirí Beaga siocair nach bhfuil a’ méid sin toighthí níos mó sa deisceart agus sa tuaisceart don ghrúpa bailte sin. Abair, tchítear níos mó páirceann (bhuel ní páirceannaí atá iontu ach abair, níl toighthí in achan áit níos mó mar a bhí aroimhe) agus tú ar a’ taobh thuaidh nó theas den tsraith sin. Is é ’n chéad teach mór den tsraith sin sa deisceart Tigh Hiúdaí Bhig agus a’ teach mór deireanach sa tuaisceart an tOllmhargadh "Gallagher’s". Eadar an dá theach mhóra sin, níl ach toighthí ar fad in aice lena chéile. :) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 1198 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 05:01 am: |
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townland = baile fearann, i. ní gá go mbeadh sráidbhaile ná clachán i gceist. |
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