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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (March-April) » Archive through April 03, 2005 » Ní thuigim « Previous Next »

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Seán a' Chaipín
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 83.104.38.8
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 05:10 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Following on from that test, waht's wrong with "gurb" here? It seems reasonable to me...

Dúirt sé gurb fhearr an scrudú a dhéanamh anois, dá
mbeadh an t-am againn.

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 471
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 05:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Is this what you're trying to say:

He said it'd be better to do the exam now, if we have the time.

Dúirt sé gurbh fhearr gurbh anois go ndéanfaí an scrúdú, má tá an t-am againn.

It seemed to me that you were putting slight emphasis on "now" in the English sentence, which is why I turned:

gurbh fhearr go ndéanfaí an scrúdú anois

into:

gurbh fhearr gurbh anois a ndéanfaí an scrúdú

Here's another example of it:

Tiocfaidh siad amárach.
Is amárach a dtiocfaidh siad.

Anyway, to get to the point, "gurb fhearr" is simply grammatically wrong. Here's how it works:

Is buachaill é.
Deir sé gur buachaill é.

Ba bhuachaill é.
Dúirt sé gur bhuachaill é.

Is éan é.
Deir sé gurb éan é.

B'éan é.
Dúirt sé gurbh éan é.

Is fear é.
Deir sé gur fear é.

B'fhear é.
Dúirt sé gurbh fhear é.


So you see, there's no possible combination that could yield "gurb fhear".

(Message edited by Fear_na_mBróg on March 22, 2005)

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Seán a' Chaipín
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 83.104.38.8
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 06:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks for that, but this is what I understood from that:

Gurb fhearr (it is better)

Gurbh fhearr (it would be better)

Should "Gurb fhearr" be "gur fearr" ??

Confusing.

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 473
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 07:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

He says that it is better
Deir sé gur fearr

He said that it was better
Dúirt sé gurbh fhearr

He said that it would be better
Dúirt sé gurbh fhearr / Dúirt sé go mb'fhearr


It's not that confusing when you get the hang of it. Just look at it this way:

1) "gur" can be past tense or present tense

2) If it's present, it does nothing. If it's past, it sticks a 'h' on things.

3) When you put "gur" it in the past with a word beginning with 'f', you get an "fh", eg. "fhearr". An "fh" is silent, so you're left with a vowel... and "gur" mutates when you stick it before a vowel:

Deir sé gurb eol dó
Dúirt sé gurbh eol dó

Deir sé gur fearr leis
Dúirt sé gurbh fhearr leis


I can swim, but I couldn't swim last year.
Is féidir liom snámh, ach níorbh fhéidir liom snámh anuraidh

He says the he can swim, but that he couldn't swim last year
Deir sé gur féidir leis snámh, ach nárbh fhéidir leis snámh anuraidh


gurb = present
gurbh = past

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Seán a' Chaipín
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 217.39.113.209
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thaks, Fear na mBróg.

Very lucid.

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member
Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 164
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 02:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dúirt sé gurb fhearr an scrudú a dhéanamh anois, dá
mbeadh an t-am againn.


That's perfectly normal in the living language, and it's often pronounced (and written) "dúirt sé go b'fhearr." It's just "wrong" according to the "Official Standard."

If you're taking a test to demonstrate your knowledge of the "Official Standard," you choose "gan bhia gan deoch" as "the correct answer," but that shouldn't stop anyone from writing "gan biadh gan deoch" under other circumstances.

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 219
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I don't think the Official Standard aims to say what is right and what is wrong, it's just a "middle" language that is used for official texts, education and edition. I've never read anywhere that what we say in Ulster Irish is wrong because it isn't in the standard. The dialects are the natural irish, the standard is a recent construction based on these dialects, making choices and trying to be in the middle.

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member
Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 165
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"Níor smaointigh aon duine go b'fhearr do'n lánamhain costas na bainse a thaisgidh agus gur mhaith aca é lá b'fhuide anonn."

— Séamus 'ac Grianna, An Clár is an Fhoireann
http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/tobar/

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 476
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 04:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I've seen "go mb'fhearr" before, but never "go b'fhearr"...



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