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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (March-April) » Archive through March 11, 2005 » Cupla alt « Previous Next »

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Daithí
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Posted From: 64.12.116.135
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 01:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post


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Seosamh Mac Muirí
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 193.1.100.105
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 08:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post

GRMA a Dhaithí. Tá an chéad cheann ar an nGaeilge agus ar Scoil an Tóibínigh an-mhaith ar fad. Imreoidh sé tionchar an-dearfach ar go leor de léitheoirí an nuachtáin.

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'dj@ks
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 159.134.220.125
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 07:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"...I’m blessed to be Irish because we’ve hammered English out on the anvil of the Irish language… very strange syntactical structure, and I relish all of that."
-Bryan Delaney

What's that man on? Drugs?

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Seosamh Mac Muirí
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 193.1.100.105
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 03:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post

>>> What's that man on?

B'fhéidir gur chuir sé babhta léitheoireachta de ar an ábhar seo a leanas sular scríobh sé an sliocht thuas:

http://www.joensuu.fi/fld/ecc/publications/order_form.html

(The last article, sílim, le Vennemann, points to the de-Germanicizing of English on its arrival in Britain, the finger pointing at the de-Indo-Europeanized P-Celtic, with some 100s of yrs. of Latin interruption between them to cushion the blow.)

Spéisiúil.

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Dancas1
Member
Username: Dancas1

Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 04:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chara: Nice to see an Irish language wesbite from NYC.


However, in reference to the Irish language article/review of Scorcese's film Five Points:

There was no Dead Rabbit or Plug Ugly gangs in the Old Five Points. Period. (My mother's Irish Famine immigrant family lived 5 blocks from the 5 Points through the 1880s.)

"Rabbit" is merely the English phonetic overcoat for the Irish noun
Ráibéad, pl. Ráibéid, A big hulking person, a galoot, a shoulder-hitter. Dead is an English slang intensifier meaning "very."

A Dead Rabbit was a Dead Ráibéad, or bilingual NYC 19th century street slang for "a very big lug, or person."

"Plug Ugly" is merely the Phonetic of "Baill Óglaigh," meaning "members of the (Irish) Volunteers." The Roche Guards were one of several score Irish "volunteer' companies that flourished in the old breac-Ghaeltaht neighborhoods of mid-19th century NYC. They all looked upon themsleves as Volunteers, who protected the Catholic Irish poor from the nativist gangs and paramilitaries, headed up by psychopaths like Butcher Bill Poole. They were only "plug ugly" to the nativist Irish-hating NY Times and other newspapers of the time.

"Herby Baby" Asbury, the nativist sympathizer, and Methodist Bishop's wayward son, alleges the phoney moniker arose when someone threw a dead rabbit into the middle of a meeting of some local Five Points Irish immigrants. The Irish then supposedly mounted the dead rabbit onto a pole or pike and named themselves in English, no less, "Dead Rabbits." If anyone had thrown a rabbit into a roomful of Irish Famine immigrants in 1857, they would have glommed (gla/m) it, skinned it, cooked it, and fed it to the family in a stew.

Scorcese, who should have known better, and was born in Little Italy, took Asbury's trope and ran amuck with it into absurdity and a lousy movie. I believe, most of the Irish gang names from this period, Shirttails, Patsy Conroys, buckaroos, and the later Why-O, Mackerel, Marginal, Gorilla, Parlor, and Gopher gangs are merely English phonetic monikers for real Irish names. This practice was also common in 19th and early 20th century Boston, Chicago, Philly, New Orelans, and San Francisco, and wherever there were slums and Irish American gangs. See TJ English, Paddy Whacked: The Untold Story of the Irish American Gangster

DC

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Diarmo
Member
Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 92
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 06:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

more on Babylon school in Long Island! some facts wrong but anyway we forgive them!!

Beyond fleet feet, ancient Irish tongue thrives
http://www.newsday.com/
BY JIM MERRITT. March 6, 2005

Patrick Clifford's class is learning a bit of Gaelic vocabulary
tonight plus
some handy phrases for getting around in the Irish countryside.

"An bhfuil sé fuar?" Clifford says, writing the Irish Gaelic words,
which
mean, "Is it cold?" on a portable blackboard at the front of a
makeshift
classroom inside the Ancient Order of Hibernians Hall in Babylon.

Justine Napodano, one of 15 students taking Clifford's beginning Irish
class, repeats the Gaelic tongue twister, then the correct answer on
this
winter evening:

"Tá sé fuar: It is cold."

"I'm really into languages," explains Napodano, 17, a Seaford
resident and a
senior at Island Trees High School. Though only a tiny bit Irish
(she's
mostly Sicilian-American), Napodano is enjoying the lessons, during
which
Clifford, an Irish immigrant who lives in Lindenhurst, also holds up
flashcards with Irish vocabulary words. "It doesn't sound like any
other
language I've ever heard before."

For Maureen and Bill Crowley of Kings Park, married accountants
who've just
returned from a trip to the Emerald Isle, it's more of an essential
skill.
The fourth-generation Irish-Americans have been promised a return
trip to
Ireland if they can master the Irish tongue.

Keeping Irish alive for the Irish, the Irish-American and the merely
curious
is the object of the Gerry Tobin Irish Language School, which
generally
includes between 50 and 120 students, and attracts some 70 students
to free
classes each Thursday.

Founded in 1988, the school offers the most extensive Irish language
instructional program in North America, according to an Irish Voice
article
published last fall.

A thriving Irish language school is "a testament to the long history
of
Irish Americans on Long Island," said Anne O'Byrne, an assistant
professor
of philosophy at Hofstra University who grew up in Ireland.

Students say they're drawn in because of interest in their own Irish
heritage as well as the language's music and intellectual challenges.

"I want to learn every language known to man," said Lauren Soule, 15,
of
West Babylon, whose ethnic background includes Norwegian, Polish and
Russian
ancestors, but no Irish.

"Irish Gaelic in particular is undergoing a tremendous renaissance
since its
near-extinction in the mid 20th century," according to Jerry Kelly,
another
one of the 10 instructors at the school.

Kelly said that English speakers had suppressed Gaelic in its homeland
during centuries of British rule. In the schools, "they would beat
you if
you spoke Irish," he said. Kelly teaches a "Mommy, Daddy & Me"
program for
kids 2-9; other sections cover advanced conversation, literature,
history,
and creative writing.

Irish - taught now in Republic of Ireland's public schools, a central
reason
for its comeback - is spoken as a "first" language there by about 40
percent
of the republic's close to 4 million inhabitants; a few hundred
thousand
also speak it in Northern Ireland, according to Kelly. Music with
Irish
Gaelic lyrics is also having a resurgence, especially among young
people.

But what's the use of studying a language heard only on one little, if
beloved, island?

"We've got the greatest epic literature [in Irish Gaelic] that
survives in
Indo-European culture," said Kelly, 53, a financial consultant who
lives in
Seaford and raised his two children to speak Irish at home.

A branch of Celtic which originated in central Europe in the 12th to
8th
centuries B.C., Irish is the source of words such as "puck"
and "smashing,"
as in we had a "smashing" time, say the Tobin school instructors.

The Tobin school is part of a larger Irish-language scene nationwide,
said
Thomas Ihde, director of the CUNY Institute for Irish American
Studies at
Lehman College in The Bronx. Irish Gaelic courses are taught at about
20
colleges and universities nationwide, including New York University
and
CUNY, and in high school and university adult education programs. Ihde
estimates that about 80 percent of students studying are either
Irish-American or married to one.

The other 20 percent include Brian V. Sukhoo, 15, of North Babylon,
whose
background is Puerto Rican and Guyanese. Each Thursday he accompanies
Soule,
his girlfriend, to class.

A student of languages, Sukhoo said he's also studying Japanese,
German and
Korean. He enjoys the school's warm learning environment and hopes to
speak
Irish one day in its native land.

Says Sukhoo: "I think it's only right to learn the language of the
place
you're going to visit."

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Diarmo
Member
Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 93
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 06:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post


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Diarmo
Member
Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 94
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 06:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post

After reading this article a 3rd time I discovered that there was someone familiar to me quoted on it!

my cousin that lives in New York and lectures on philsophy!

funny!!

small world!

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'dj@ks
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 159.134.220.139
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 08:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

How wonderfully upbeat but populated by air-heads -

'"I want to learn every language known to man," said Lauren Soule, 15, of West Babylon, whose ethnic background includes Norwegian, Polish and Russian ancestors, but no Irish."'

I know from local news, that quotes can be decontextualised and rendered not quite so like intended. Perhaps she meant she loves langue learning and would like to learn all of them if it were possible, and the journo shredded it a bit.

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'dj@ks
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 159.134.220.139
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 08:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Sheosamh,
"...de-Indo-Europeanized P-Celtic..."

I ahve heard of this before (unfortunately link does not have an article) and how it effected English. One BBC próg did a little on this, but it was so general, one forgets the title 'What foreigners did for us' or the like. Yes the 'we' refered to are the 'english'/'british' which pathetically in the last 5 or more years, even on TimeTeam or any English archy próg has come to mean all peoples of all times in Britain. Hell, ancient peoples that loved in Ireland are now ancient Britons, not as a non politcal label, but deliberately with all the bollocks that imagining neolithic people as having British nationality brings.

Are you saying that the Celtic langues of both streams were internmixed with a pan Ireland & Britain bronze age tongue that had initital consonatal mutation, inflected prepositional pronouns and so on (thingsI hear not native, or not general at least to IndoEuropean). This would suggest that they were in contact for a very long time for such features (I read not seen in Gaulish) to become so de rigour that they are part n'parcel of Celtic today.

As 4 yon buck with the quote, don't tell me he did not mean what he said in a sort of arty bullshitical tip those 'freethinkers' like to run on!



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