Lughaidh is a linguist, who has a command of Gaoth Dobhair Irish. As a Linguist, I think his point of view is valid, and I agree with him that immersion in a Gaeltacht is the best possible way to learn Irish.

Where I disagree with him is that that is the only possible way - since for many people it's simply not an option.

I have spoken Irish all my life; however, I have not lived in "immersion" because I am from Dublin. Also, my written Irish is sometimes wrong since I have very little practice, and it's sometimes sloppy, especially in posts.

I appreciate it when my errors are corrected, regardless of who does the correcting.


There have been a few cases recently where he has corrected me on usage, I have gone and checked with the dictionary; and found that my version is supported by the dictionary. Then I have said so.

But this should not descend into a brawl between us, with others taking sides.

So can we distinguish please between opinion, usage and grammar; and try to avoid acrimony.

I apologise for my getting tetchy in posts; but I can't promise it won't happen again - only that I'll try and rein myself in.

(Message edited by aonghus on February 22, 2005)

(Message edited by aonghus on February 22, 2005)

Sorry Aonghus, sometimes I open my mouth (keyboard?) when it would be best to keep it closed. If you'd like to loan me some of your level-headedness I'd be most appreciative!

No brawl with Lughaidh or anyone else intended, just exercising some pent-up irritation out of my system.

Searlas

I'm as guilty as anyone else - but hopefully we can smother any flame war befoe it goes any further.

Ah, but you're so right, Aonghus, it isn't just about you or Lughaidh -- it's not just you we're defending or often not you or Lughaidh at all, but our own selves as well as maybe all the people out there who read but are too quiet or too frustrated to post, but just as irked by things that can be said here without regard to the big picture. It's way bigger than just you two.

Take the young boy who's made his own website in Irish that hears, "well, you've made a mistake here and here" -- well intentioned critiques, surely, but they're transmitted to him before he hears, "well done a mhic! What an amazing job you've done."


You two happen to be two of the most prolific posters and thus in your view it looks like you are the elected representatives of two different language parties, but there are many more silent parties out there, many more opinions. If smothering the flame means that we should all just sit back and read along while you two keep bashing it out alone, where's the fun in that?


What can we all do to keep all our attitudes and opinions toward learning open-minded and positive?

Colleen

Did I start this? I sure hope not. All I was doing was responding to a comment by Lughaidh where he said, "it doesn't sound Irish."

I fully respect Lughaidh's academic accomplishments and would not question his input on grammar or sentence contstruction, etc. My only point was that when the question arises

"Does it SOUND Irish?"...well, I'd have to give the greater weight to a guy (or girl) who speaks Irish "from the cradle".

Geez...I gotta watch what I'm saying. This is like tossing chum in a shark pool...the least little showing of blood and out they come!!!

No James, I'm the "shark". Your comment didn't prompt mine. Again, sorry, I should have kept my irritation to myself.

By the way James, nice pictures on your site and good luck with your inaugural immersion weekend later this year.

Regards,

Searlas

Chums,

I cringe when I see someone post a message that contains a misspelling or a missing fada, and instead of getting a response to their question or statement, their mistakes are seized upon and used as a weapon to batter them. As a native speaker of English, I'm sure I misspell and misspeak all the time. I can't imagine what it'd be like if someone jumped down my throat every time I used "that" instead of "which."

On the other hand, I'm heartened when I see the very generous exchange of information on this discussion forum. It reminds me of the great, patient teachers I've had over the years. They corrected me very gently, and their manner did much to encourage me.

I do my best to treasure these people who encourage me, and ignore the begrudgers.

Le meas, Paul

I haven't any idea what is going on. I've been a bit busy lately so I haven't been checking the recent posts, but I have noticed quite a few discussions between certain people. I think it's healthy to have an opinion about something, but we don't need to quarrel here.

Can't we all just get along? :P

Haha, that was cheesy.. I know. But why is it so difficult?

Christine

My comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I just felt that some of the discussions were turning out to be more about the "man" not the "ball".

I may have been wrong.

quote:

What can we all do to keep all our attitudes and opinions toward learning open-minded and positive?

A Chailín, that was exactly what I was trying to say, but said much better! Go raibh maith agat!

I don't wish to bash it out with anybody, unless bashing it out means teasing out a point of interest.




(Message edited by aonghus on February 22, 2005)

I notice that only one side is trying to build bridges. A case of Mór an trua or beag an baol?

I don't know. One of the problems is that Lughaidh is not confident of his english, and I think may miss nuances in English.

That may be the problem. At times he has made statements like "You should have said", "You must mean", "My teacher said and my teacher is right". This comes across as dictatorial and he may not mean it quite that way. But often his corrections of someone's grammar or usage comes across like a kick in the head instead of a slap on the wrist.

Come on, give the olde Luggy some love!

"Can't we all just get along? :P "
-Chinta

"I feel your pain" Lughaidh!