I'm interested in corresponding with someone who lives in Ireland. I'm a white male, 50 years old, my mother and father were 100% Irish--father's surname Mulhern, mother's surname McGovern. Anyone interested in chatting with me about my home land and the way of life there and would like to know about the life here in New York, United States, please email me at...

Michael

Ar bhain do thuismitheoirí le Droim Caorthainn nó leis an Airgnigh a Mhícheáil?
Where your parents from Drumkeerin - Arigna perhaps?

(Judging from both surnames.)

Más ea, is fiú amharc isteach anseo: http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/index.shtml
- If so, you may find it benefical to peep into the site just mentioned.

Seosamh,
Hi. I don't speak or read Gailic (sp?) so I'de like to know how to say your name in English. My family is from Dunegal (sp?) What county are you from? By the way, do you know the time difference between Ireland and the USA?

Michael

You'll get yourself into hot water there Michael.

Seosamh Mac Muirí is Seosamh's name in any language.

http://www.worldtimezone.com/ will give you the time difference. We are 5 hours ahead of the East Coast.

i.e. it is now 17:00 (5 pm) here and 12:00 EST.

Your family is from Donegal - Dún na nGall, also known in Irish as Tír Chonaill.

A Aonghuis, a chara,

Bí cúramach a Mhic. My mother's family is from Inis Eoghan, a barony of Donegal that is not part of Tír Chonaill. People in the Donegal Gaeltacht seem to use Tír Chonaill as a synonym for Condae Dhun na nGall, and it ain't so.

Unfortunately, Inis Eoghan left the Donegal Gaeltacht in the time of my Grandmother. In her youth, everybody decided not to teach their children Irish. So when speakers refer to the Tír Chonaill Gaeltacht I am reminded of my ancestor's abandonment of their native tongue. Forgive me my pet peeve.

In the ninth century, I think (It was a little before my time.) Niall of the Nine Hostages gave a bit of land to his son Conall, Tír Chonaill, and another bit of land to his son Eoghan, Tír Eoghain, which included what is now Condae Thír Eoghain.

(Message edited by lúcas on February 25, 2005)

Sorry, I hit the "save message" button twice.


(Message edited by lúcas on February 25, 2005)

In relation to what Aonghus said about Seosamh's name being Seosamh in any language - why then, are childrens names "translated" into Irish in a lot of primary schools? (including the one I attended). It's also done at the university I attend.
And to Michael Mulhern, his name "in English" would probably be something like "Joseph Murray" or even McMurray, although I've never heard that surname! Your name "in Irish" would be Mícháel (not sure if that's the right spelling) and it is pronounced Mee-haw-l (meehawl).
With relation to Gailic, it's called many things. The majority of Irish people just call it "Irish" or "Gaeilge".

Michael is Mícheál. When speaking English , the language is referred to as Irish or Gaelic. In Irish it's Gaeilge.

Thanks for the correct spelling! I forgot caol le caol agus leathan le leathan!!

quote:

why then, are childrens names "translated" into Irish in a lot of primary schools?

I consider it a bad habit which I intensely dislike. But other people have a different view. I happen to know that Seosamh shares my view on the subject of ones name being translated, which is why I made the comment.

Seosamh,
I'm sorry if I offended you by asking for the translation of your name into English. I was just curious what the interpratation meant if it had any. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I like Daisy's way of spelling my name in Irish. I may start spelling it that way here in the states.

I want to thank everyone for posting back to me. I'de like to keep in touch with all my new Irish "friends".

By the way, I was told by my family for years now that on St. Patty's day it is not a big celebration in Ireland, it's kind of just like a regular day, is this true? If so, why? Here in New York City they paint a green line down fifth avenue, there is a big celebration, big parade, and everyone celebrates the wearing of the green. It's televised on all the T.V. stations and they march down fifth avenue and at the end of the parade most people end up in Mickey Flinns or O'Rourkes (I guess you would call the pubs, we call them bars) or central park eating corn beef and cabbage.

Gotta go now, have to go walk my dog Clancie.

Micheál

a Mhicheál - just because it seems to be the sort of thing you would like to know, if you don't already, that "Micheál" would not be pronounced "michael" but "MEEhaul"

if you're going to start using it with the Gaeilge spelling it would be good to know how to say it when people inevitably point to it and ask "what is *that*?"

I use mine, Antaine (Anthony), all the time, and have even seriously debated on and off having it legally changed.

(a friend of mine whose name is actually Micheál and is originally from Castlebar, Mayo put the stress on the first syllable...for those of you more experieced than I, should it go on the first, or on the accented syllable, making it "meeHAUL?")

I have been under the impression that syllables containing vowels with fadas are accented.

Or is this a regional (dialect) thing?

I've also heard it argued with reference to personal proper nouns: "it's my name and I can spell it and pronounce it any way I wish."

"I have been under the impression that syllables containing vowels with fadas are accented. "

me too, that's why I asked...but he nevertheless stresses it differently...I wonder if that is regional indeed...

(a friend of mine whose name is actually Micheál and is originally from Castlebar, Mayo


Agus is mo mhuintir as Maigh Eo -- God help us, and I don't know how they pronounced Micheál. There are several Irish speakers out there who are from Mayo who used to post here quite frequently. I miss them. Perhaps this will resurrect them.

Pat

As I understand it, sylables with fadas in are emphisised in Munster, whereas in Ulster (Donegal) the emphisis is almost always on the first sylable.

I think that's right, maybe someone can confirm that? I don't have a clue about Connaught though.

I never saw the script, but the Barry Fitzgerald character in "The Quiet Man" is called by what sounds like Mickaleen, (accents on first and last syllables) which I have assumed was spelled Micheálaín or however one should spell the diminutive of Micheál. Where does that movie take place?

Here's what it says about emphasis in An Teanga Bheo: Corca Dhuibhne.

1.1 Béim an ghutha

Is féidir le béim an ghutha titim ar an gcéad siolla san fhocal, nó ar an dara siolla, nó ar an tríú siolla, de réir na rialacha a thugtar thíos; léirítear suíomh na béime le cló trom.

Titeann an bhéim

(i) ar an dara siolla más guta fada nó -ach atá ann:

cailín, cailíní
amhrán, amhránaí, amhránaíocht
pacáil, pacálann

Más guta gairid atá sa chéad siolla titeann an bhéim ar ach sa dara siolla:

bacach, tuirseach, casachtach

Ní bhíonn an bhéim ar -ach más -th- an consan roimhe nó más guta fada atá sa chéad siolla:

fathach .........brónach
dathacha ........éisteacht

(ii) ar an tríú siolla más guta fada atá ann, agus an dá ghuta roimhe a bheith gearr:

achainí
asachán
feir(i)meoir

(iii) ar an gcéad siolla mura bhfuil feidhm le (i) agus (ii). Dá bhrí sin deirtear:

capall	áraistí	im(i)leacán
carraigeacha	cúntanós	sath(a)raintí
foghlaim	údarás	aif(i)rinntí,
brónach	útamáil

Here is some vocabulary to help translate above: béim = emphais; guth = sound; siolla = syllable; rialacha = rules; léiririgh = illustrate; suíomh = location; cló trom = boldface; guta gairid = short vowel; guta fada = long vowel


(Message edited by lúcas on February 27, 2005)

-... I was just curious what the interpratation meant if it had any. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No need to apologise a Mhícheáil, I understood entirely. The noun 'muireadhach' meant 'lord', 'master', 'proprietor'. The progenitor of the surname was Muireadhach mac Donnchaidh, mhic Lochlainn, mhic Amhlaibh, mhic Airt Uí Ruairc. The deaths of his sons are mentioned under the years 1398 and 1421. By the 1650s, the surname was being hypocorrected amongst Irish speakers from its 1st. decl. original (Mac Muireadhaigh) to a 4th. declension form (Mac Maraidhe) giving the transliteration 'Mc Morrey' in English documentation. In English speech I have heard this 'Mc Morrey' used for myself and others of the name. Being Ó Ruaircs, they are the fourth most common name in north Leitrim and are fairly numerous in north Sligo, both town and county.

-... You'll get yourself into hot water there Michael. Seosamh Mac Muirí is Seosamh's name in any language.

Aonghus was just slightly too defensive on my part, but his reading of my attitude to the one name being used across all languages is correct.
1. The vast majority of people in Ireland use only one name, both at home and abroad. Most of those who do so, use English transliterations of some Irish original name (be they native Irish speakers, 1st language speakers or 2nd language speakers).
2. A small minority use more than one name, most of the time the secondary name being an Irish form, original or otherwise.
3. A minority of people who use only one name (be they native Irish speakers, 1st language speakers or 2nd language speakers) happen to use an original Irish form, some of us standardizing the name to accomodate phonological changes which may have occured over the centuries. Most of my own immediate family use one English transliterate form, my great-greatgrandfather (b. 1795) being the last to be covered by three tranliterate forms (Mc Murray, Mc Morrey and Mc Morrow), two of those forms having being in use by his own grandfather (b. 1728-1821) before him. On the other hand some of my immediate family who have died - 2nd language Irish speakers - have gravestones with an Irish original form (unstandardized).
I'm using an Irish name for the last 27 yrs now. I'm guessing that it's almost 13/14 yrs. since I had any oral 'language incident' in Ireland due to my name being Irish and at that time I sorted it out in 10 seconds. There are written hiccups occasionally, vehicle licencing comes to mind. Other than that it is quite acceptable to use an Irish name here nowadays.

I was aware of the surname Ó Maol Chiaráin being in Donegal and elsewhere but opted to put the question above as to Arigna-Drumkeeran because of Mac Governs plus Mulherns, both being in the one vicinity. Quite a few of the present muintir Uí Mhaoil Chiaráin in Donegal are native Ir. speakers.

fyi Niall of the Nine Hostages, Niall Nóigiallach, c.342-405