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'dj@ks Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 06:10 pm: |
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Hi, I'z wonder on the pronouncation at the end of verbs in Irish. I see the future and conditional at times are changed only between aidh and adh. Of course there are more, but perhaps a discuss on agreed range in all dialects would be useful for signalling meaning for learners. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 109 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 07:58 pm: |
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Ok. We have to distinguish between the verbs that are followed by a personal pronoun or a demonstrative (seo, sin, siúd) from the vers followed by another word. Future has endings -faidh/-fidh (1st conjugation) or -óidh/ -eoidh (2nd conjugation), according to the class the verb belongs to. Conditional has endings -fadh/feadh (1st) or -ódh/eodh (2nd). Pronounciation now: -faidh is pronounced /fэ/ or /hэ/ in Munster, /hэ/ in Connaught and Ulster, when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative -fidh is pronounced /f'э/ or /hэ/ in Munster, /hэ/ in Connaught and Ulster, in the same cases -faidh is pronounced /fig'/ or /hig'/ in Munster, /hэ/ in Connaught, /hi/ in Ulster, when followed by another word -fidh is pronounced /f'ig'/ or /hig'/ in Munster, in Munster, /hэ/ in Connaught, /hi/ in Ulster, in the same cases ------------------------ -óidh/-eoidh when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative: /o:/ in Munster and Connemara, /ahэ/ in Ulster -óidh/-eoidh when followed by another word : /o:g’/ in Munster, /o:/ in Connemara, /ahi/ in Ulster ------------------------ -fadh is pronounced /fэx/ or /hэx/ in Munster, /hэx/ in Connaught (but /hэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), /hu/ and Ulster (but /hэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative -feadh is pronounced /f'эx/ or /hэx/ in Munster, /hэx/ in Connaught (but /hэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), /hu/ and Ulster (but /hэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative -fadh is pronounced /fэx/ or /hэx/ in Munster, /hэx/ in Connaught, /hu/ and Ulster when followed by another word, -feadh is pronounced /f'эx/ or /hэx/ in Munster,/hэx/ in Connaught, /hu/ and Ulster when followed by another word, ---------------------------- -eodh/-ódh is pronounced /o:x/ in Munster and in Connaught (but /o:t/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), /ahu/ and Ulster (but /ahэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative -eodh/ódh is pronounced /o:x/ in Munster and in Connaught, /ahu/ and Ulster when followed by another word |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 110 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 08:08 pm: |
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Examples: ceannóidh mé > I will buy Munster /k'эno: m'e:/ Connemara /k'aNo: m'e:/ Ulster /k'aNahэ m'a/ ceannóidh Seán > S. will buy M /k'эno:g' s'a:n/ C /k'aNo: s'a:n/ U /k'aNahi s'a:n/ glacfaidh mé > I will take M /glakfэ m'e:/ C /glakhэ m'e:/ U /glakhэ m'a/ glacfaidh Seán> S. will take M /glakfig' s'a:n/ C /glakhэ s'a:n/ U /glakhi s'a:n/ cheannódh sé > he would buy M /x'эno:x s'e:/ C /x'aNo:t s'e:/ U /x'aNahэt s'a/ cheannódh Seán > S. would buy M /x'эno:x s'a:n/ C /x'aNo:x s'a:n/ U /x'aNahi s'a:n/ |
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'dj@ks Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 08:02 am: |
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Lughaidh, thats brilliant about the context! I was not aware the word endings sounds changed depending on grammatical contexts...that is something not in the 'Lárchaint' at least in how it is spoken, which means a lot of speakers are not getting a natural rythm into their speech. this must show up terribly in the ear of a native! |
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DiarmuidOhAodha Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 09:58 am: |
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Lughaidh go han mhaith! Je suis trop impressione par tes connaisances! Could you outline the main different pronounciations for the verb itself eg the verb to buy Ceannaigh D |
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 149 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 12:03 pm: |
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-faidh is pronounced /hэ/ in Galway, /hi:/ in Mayo, when not immediately followed by a subject pronoun. -fidh is pronounced /hэ/ in Galway, /hi:/ in Mayo, in the same cases. ____________________ -óidh/-eoidh when immediately followed by a subject pronoun: /o:/ in Munster and Connaught -óidh/-eoidh when not immediately followed by a subject pronoun: /o:/ in Galway, /o:j/ in Mayo ____________________ -fadh is pronounced /hэx/ in Galway, /hэx/ or /hu:/ in South Mayo, /hu:/ in North and West Mayo (but /hэd/ or /hэt/ when immediately followed by a subject pronoun with initial s- /∫/. -feadh is pronounced /hэx/ in Galway, /hэx/ or /hu:/ in South Mayo, /hu:/ in North and West Mayo (but /hэd/ or /hэt/ when immediately followed by a subject pronoun with initial s- /∫/. ____________________ -eodh/ódh is pronounced /o:x/ in Munster and in Galway and South Mayo, /o:φ/ in North and West Mayo (but /o:d/ or /o:t/ when immediately followed by a subject pronoun with initial s- /∫/). ____________________ ceannóidh mé > I will buy Mayo /k'aNo: m'e:/ ceannóidh Máire > M. will buy Mayo /k'aNo:j ma:r'э/ glacfaidh mé > I will take Mayo /glakэ m'e:/ glacfaidh Máire > M. will take Mayo /glaki: ma:r'э/ cheannódh sé > he would buy Mayo /çaNo:d ∫e:/ cheannódh Seán > S. would buy Mayo /çaNo:φ ∫a:n/ ghlacfadh sé > he would take Mayo /γlakэd ∫e:/ ghlacfadh Seán > S. would take Mayo /γlaku: ∫a:n/ Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 114 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 05:37 pm: |
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Go rabh maith agat a Pheadair, cha rabh 'n t-eolas sin agam fá dtaobh do chanúint Mhaigh Eo! >Lughaidh go han mhaith! >Je suis trop impressione par tes connaisances! Merci ;-) >Could you outline the main different pronounciations for the verb itself eg the verb to buy Ceannaigh Ok, you mean, for the imperative "ceannaigh"? Then it is: Munster /k’anig’/ (or is it k’эnig’ ?) Conamara /k’aNэ/ Ulster /k’aNi/ You can see that all -(a)igh and -(a)idh in these dialects (when there’s no subject pronoun or demonstrative after them) are pronounced that way in most cases. For nouns as well, for examples: bealaigh (gs of bealach) M /b’alig’/ C /b’alэ/ (or is it /b’aLэ/ ?) U /b’ali/ |
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Dancas1
Member Username: Dancas1
Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:24 am: |
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I understand Ceannaíocht means "buying, purchasing." But I also believe it means "dealing." Does the "dealing" merely refer to dealing in goods or commodities as in "ceannaíocht earraí" ? Can Ceannaíocht ever be applied to "dealing" cards as in a poker game or in a gambling game such as faro, roulette, etc. ? thanks daniel cassidy DC
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 150 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 03:29 am: |
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To use a bilingual dictionary correctly you have to mind the details, analyze things and cross-reference them. A deal is a part (Teil in German, deel in Dutch, deo in Serbian, etc.). "A great deal" and "a good deal" are the exact literal equivalents of "cuid mhór" and "cuid mhaith." A merchant is called a dealer because he distributes merchandise, divides it into lots or divides lots into pieces or portions and sells them. A card dealer distributes cards, divides them among the players, but that doesn't mean he buys them and sells them, so it doesn't make him a "ceannaí." Tomás de Bhaldraithe's English-Irish Dictionary answers your question right away: dealer, s. 1. Cards: Fear m, bean f, ranna. Fear ranna, bean ranna. If you look up ceannaí and roinn in Niall Ó Dónaill's Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla, you'll find that "fear ranna" is used for both kinds of "dealer"; but "ceannaí" is not, because it means "buyer, purchaser" or "dealer, merchant," and nothing else. By "dealer, merchant" he doesn't mean "a dealer in any sense of the word, or a merchant," but "a dealer, that is, a merchant." (Message edited by Peadar Ó Gríofa on February 18, 2005) Peadar Ó Gríofa
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