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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (January-February) » Archive through February 18, 2005 » Pronouncing verb endings « Previous Next »

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'dj@ks
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 159.134.220.103
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 06:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi,
I'z wonder on the pronouncation at the end of verbs in Irish. I see the future and conditional at times are changed only between aidh and adh. Of course there are more, but perhaps a discuss on agreed range in all dialects would be useful for signalling meaning for learners.

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 109
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ok. We have to distinguish between the verbs that are followed by a personal pronoun or a demonstrative (seo, sin, siúd) from the vers followed by another word.

Future has endings -faidh/-fidh (1st conjugation) or -óidh/ -eoidh (2nd conjugation), according to the class the verb belongs to.

Conditional has endings -fadh/feadh (1st) or -ódh/eodh (2nd).

Pronounciation now:

-faidh is pronounced /fэ/ or /hэ/ in Munster, /hэ/ in Connaught and Ulster, when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative

-fidh is pronounced /f'э/ or /hэ/ in Munster, /hэ/ in Connaught and Ulster, in the same cases

-faidh is pronounced /fig'/ or /hig'/ in Munster, /hэ/ in Connaught, /hi/ in Ulster, when followed by another word

-fidh is pronounced /f'ig'/ or /hig'/ in Munster, in Munster, /hэ/ in Connaught, /hi/ in Ulster, in the same cases

------------------------

-óidh/-eoidh when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative: /o:/ in Munster and Connemara, /ahэ/ in Ulster

-óidh/-eoidh when followed by another word : /o:g’/ in Munster, /o:/ in Connemara, /ahi/ in Ulster

------------------------

-fadh is pronounced /fэx/ or /hэx/ in Munster, /hэx/ in Connaught (but /hэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), /hu/ and Ulster (but /hэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative

-feadh is pronounced /f'эx/ or /hэx/ in Munster, /hэx/ in Connaught (but /hэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), /hu/ and Ulster (but /hэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative

-fadh is pronounced /fэx/ or /hэx/ in Munster, /hэx/ in Connaught, /hu/ and Ulster when followed by another word,

-feadh is pronounced /f'эx/ or /hэx/ in Munster,/hэx/ in Connaught, /hu/ and Ulster when followed by another word,

----------------------------

-eodh/-ódh is pronounced /o:x/ in Munster and in Connaught (but /o:t/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), /ahu/ and Ulster (but /ahэt/ when followed by sé, sí, sibh, seo, sin, siúd), when followed by a pronoun or demonstrative

-eodh/ódh is pronounced /o:x/ in Munster and in Connaught, /ahu/ and Ulster when followed by another word

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 110
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Examples:

ceannóidh mé > I will buy
Munster /k'эno: m'e:/
Connemara /k'aNo: m'e:/
Ulster /k'aNahэ m'a/

ceannóidh Seán > S. will buy
M /k'эno:g' s'a:n/
C /k'aNo: s'a:n/
U /k'aNahi s'a:n/

glacfaidh mé > I will take
M /glakfэ m'e:/
C /glakhэ m'e:/
U /glakhэ m'a/

glacfaidh Seán> S. will take
M /glakfig' s'a:n/
C /glakhэ s'a:n/
U /glakhi s'a:n/



cheannódh sé > he would buy
M /x'эno:x s'e:/
C /x'aNo:t s'e:/
U /x'aNahэt s'a/

cheannódh Seán > S. would buy
M /x'эno:x s'a:n/
C /x'aNo:x s'a:n/
U /x'aNahi s'a:n/

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'dj@ks
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 159.134.220.3
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 08:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Lughaidh,
thats brilliant about the context! I was not aware the word endings sounds changed depending on grammatical contexts...that is something not in the 'Lárchaint' at least in how it is spoken, which means a lot of speakers are not getting a natural rythm into their speech. this must show up terribly in the ear of a native!

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DiarmuidOhAodha
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 213.190.149.122
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Lughaidh go han mhaith!
Je suis trop impressione par tes connaisances!

Could you outline the main different pronounciations for the verb itself eg the verb to buy Ceannaigh

D

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member
Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 149
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

-faidh is pronounced /hэ/ in Galway, /hi:/ in Mayo, when not immediately followed by a subject pronoun.

-fidh is pronounced /hэ/ in Galway, /hi:/ in Mayo, in the same cases.
____________________

-óidh/-eoidh when immediately followed by a subject pronoun: /o:/ in Munster and Connaught

-óidh/-eoidh when not immediately followed by a subject pronoun: /o:/ in Galway, /o:j/ in Mayo
____________________

-fadh is pronounced /hэx/ in Galway, /hэx/ or /hu:/ in South Mayo, /hu:/ in North and West Mayo (but /hэd/ or /hэt/ when immediately followed by a subject pronoun with initial s- /∫/.

-feadh is pronounced /hэx/ in Galway, /hэx/ or /hu:/ in South Mayo, /hu:/ in North and West Mayo (but /hэd/ or /hэt/ when immediately followed by a subject pronoun with initial s- /∫/.
____________________

-eodh/ódh is pronounced /o:x/ in Munster and in Galway and South Mayo, /o:φ/ in North and West Mayo (but /o:d/ or /o:t/ when immediately followed by a subject pronoun with initial s- /∫/).
____________________

ceannóidh mé > I will buy
Mayo /k'aNo: m'e:/

ceannóidh Máire > M. will buy
Mayo /k'aNo:j ma:r'э/

glacfaidh mé > I will take
Mayo /glakэ m'e:/

glacfaidh Máire > M. will take
Mayo /glaki: ma:r'э/

cheannódh sé > he would buy
Mayo /çaNo:d ∫e:/

cheannódh Seán > S. would buy
Mayo /çaNo:φ ∫a:n/

ghlacfadh sé > he would take
Mayo /γlakэd ∫e:/

ghlacfadh Seán > S. would take
Mayo /γlaku: ∫a:n/

Peadar Ó Gríofa

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 114
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go rabh maith agat a Pheadair, cha rabh 'n t-eolas sin agam fá dtaobh do chanúint Mhaigh Eo!

>Lughaidh go han mhaith!
>Je suis trop impressione par tes connaisances!

Merci ;-)

>Could you outline the main different pronounciations for the verb itself eg the verb to buy Ceannaigh

Ok, you mean, for the imperative "ceannaigh"?

Then it is:

Munster /k’anig’/ (or is it k’эnig’ ?)
Conamara /k’aNэ/
Ulster /k’aNi/

You can see that all -(a)igh and -(a)idh in these dialects (when there’s no subject pronoun or demonstrative after them) are pronounced that way in most cases.
For nouns as well, for examples:

bealaigh (gs of bealach)
M /b’alig’/
C /b’alэ/ (or is it /b’aLэ/ ?)
U /b’ali/

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Dancas1
Member
Username: Dancas1

Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I understand Ceannaíocht means "buying, purchasing." But I also believe it means "dealing."

Does the "dealing" merely refer to dealing in goods or commodities as in "ceannaíocht earraí" ?

Can Ceannaíocht ever be applied to "dealing" cards as in a poker game or in a gambling game such as faro, roulette, etc. ?

thanks
daniel cassidy

DC

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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member
Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa

Post Number: 150
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 03:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post

To use a bilingual dictionary correctly you have to mind the details, analyze things and cross-reference them.

A deal is a part (Teil in German, deel in Dutch, deo in Serbian, etc.). "A great deal" and "a good deal" are the exact literal equivalents of "cuid mhór" and "cuid mhaith." A merchant is called a dealer because he distributes merchandise, divides it into lots or divides lots into pieces or portions and sells them. A card dealer distributes cards, divides them among the players, but that doesn't mean he buys them and sells them, so it doesn't make him a "ceannaí." Tomás de Bhaldraithe's English-Irish Dictionary answers your question right away: dealer, s. 1. Cards: Fear m, bean f, ranna.

Fear ranna, bean ranna.

If you look up ceannaí and roinn in Niall Ó Dónaill's Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla, you'll find that "fear ranna" is used for both kinds of "dealer"; but "ceannaí" is not, because it means "buyer, purchaser" or "dealer, merchant," and nothing else.

By "dealer, merchant" he doesn't mean "a dealer in any sense of the word, or a merchant," but "a dealer, that is, a merchant."

(Message edited by Peadar Ó Gríofa on February 18, 2005)

Peadar Ó Gríofa



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