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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (January-February) » Archive through February 09, 2005 » Impossible translation? « Previous Next »

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 193
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 01:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"you can't unring a bell"

easy in english to make a construction like "unring" but can that be rendered in gaeilge?

is there anyplace online with a list of translations for prefixes and suffixes?

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Deiric
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Posted From: 216.241.232.218
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 02:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post


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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 195
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 02:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

ooooooo....go raibh maith agat...

how about

nach bheinn clog ainfuaimnithe
(a bell cannot be unrung(?))

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 394
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

What the hell is that?!

I'm not sure if you can stick "ain" on a verb, but if so:

Ní féidir clog a ainbhualadh.

Prefixes may break the "caol le caol" rule; there's some that have two forms for "caol" and "leathan", but all the rest just ignore the rule.

--
Some pedantry: The "you" in your original phrase is the colloquial form of "one", ie.:

One can't unring a bell
A bell can't be unrung

That's why it's:

Ní féidir clog a ainbhualadh

and not:

Ní féidir leat...
Ní féidir le duine...

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 100
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

http://www.nualeargais.ie/foghlaim/prefixes.php

Hey,

Thanx for that link and the location of the Seans Eile site.

http://www.nualeargais.ie

Seems like more and more help becomes available everyday.

GRMA

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 866
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 04:36 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Antaine, I don't think it works that way in Irish - or indeed in other languages.

I would tend to try to translate the underlying sentiment in context - because phrases like those will make no sense to the reader who doesn't realise what the underlying English is.

And "ain" is wrong here. It doesn't mean "un" as in "undo", it means unhealthy/unnatural

i.e. eolas = knowledge aineolas = ignorance. which is more than just "unknowledge"

beart = deed; ainbheart an evil deed

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 398
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 08:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Well we know what the sentence is trying to express:

Once a bell has been rung, you can't go back in time and not ring it. (Unless ofcourse you have a timemachine...)

So what's the verb prefix for "un"? How do you say:

He unfilled the bucket.
He disassembled the bike.

(That's just got me thinking about how complicated English really is... impatient, undesirable.). Glad I don't have to learn that sh*t!)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 873
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 09:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

d'fholmhaigh sé an buicéad
Thóg sé an rothar as a chéile

Translation word for word just won't work.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 197
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post

well, i was thinking specifically that "you" cannot unring a [that] bell

not generally speaking, but that a person could not take back what they said/did etc, said to that person

yeah...i didn't think it would work that way, lol

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 874
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'll try and find an idiom for you, Antaine.
Can't think of one just now.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 400
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Well I think the most common English equivalent is:

The dye is cast.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 198
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

just an aside...as something i've always wondered

"the die is cast"

does this mean

that the metal die has been molded, and thus cannot be changed - also that the impression that will be imparted to whatever is stamped with it is also now predetermined

or

that the gambler has cast the die, and so it is now inevitable that it will land on a number, having implications for the bets cast - also that the number has also already been determined even though the observers will not know what number it is until the die comes to rest

just out of curiosity...

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 879
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Said originally by Julius Caesar: (and lifted by me from Wikiquote)

"Alea iacta est."

* Translation: "The die is cast."
* Said when crossing the river Rubicon with his legions, thus beginning the civil war that ended the Roman Republic and created the Roman Empire. The Rubicon river was the boundary of Gaul, the province Caesar had the authority to keep his army in. By crossing the river, he had committed an invasion of Rome.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 204
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

oh, I know where it came from, although I didn't know the latin offhand

I was wondering to which "die" does he refer? the kind used to make coins, or the kind used to gamble?

alea translates to "game of dice" and not a minting die - which i suppose makes sense given the context as he was taking a chance in his bid for power

cools

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 404
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 07:01 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I had no idea of the origin of the phrase. I presumed it was:

The dye is cast.

As in once a fabric has been dyed, there's no going back. . . I suppose it's best said and no written, 'cause then it has quite a few metaphorical meanings!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 886
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 07:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Sorry, I thought the piece I posted answered the question. It was late last night.

Caesar was taking a gamble by crossing the Rubicon, so it was the game he was referring to. Once you've thrown the dice, the situation is defined.

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Fuair mé an méid seo san fhoclóir mar aistriúchán ar "What's done cannot be undone" (s.v. "do" in de Bhaldraithe):
"Níl aon mhaith sa seanchas nuair atá an anachain déanta."
Beagáinín fada mar nath!
Tá sé le fáil in Ó Dónaill s.v. "anachain" freisin, leis an aistriúchán "it's no use crying over spilt milk".

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 889
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Fáilte inar measc arís, Dennis. Ní fhaca mé do lorg le fada!

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 53
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 11:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A, a Dhonncha, 'dé mar atá tú? Mise Lughaidh, a chuir ceastracha ort fá shanasaíocht cupla focal Gaeilge (lá, mar shampla) ar liosta Old-Irish-L ;)

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Dan
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Username: Dan

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 04:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Well "alea iacta est" is not a reference to gambling. The casting of the die was to see how favorable the god's would be to these actions, an oracle or portend .02$

(Message edited by dan on February 06, 2005)

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 101
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

"alea" refers to a gaming device. Hence Caesar's gamble,(and perhaps Caesar's palace in Las Vegas), but more important is the rule that says one cannot "un-throw" the dice once they are cast.

Perhaps this accounts for the reference to "crap(s)" often uttered by persons who fail to make the point.

Incidentally, I bet you can't find the Rubicon on a present day map of Italy, Aonghus.

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Dáithí
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Username: Dáithí

Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I found a couple of references to Ceasar's quote "alea iacta est" as coming from Menander, a famous Greek poet. Here's an extract from one source:
"He is then reported to have muttered the now infamous phrase, from the work of the poet Menander, "Alea iacta est", quoted as "Let the die be cast” or 'Let the dice fly high.'"

The source is:

http://www.unrv.com/fall-republic/crossing-the-rubicon.php

I think that Ceasar should share the credit for the quote with Menander :)

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 208
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post


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Réaltán Ní Leannáin
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Posted From: 83.71.15.187
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Séard a deirimse le mo dhaltaí féin - translation , like a wife, is most attractive when least faithful. Ní mise a chum é, is bean mhúinte teanga mé féin, agus tuigeann siad ar an toirt cad tá i gceist agam.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 210
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

just an odd question...does anybody remember where the post was about the benefits of expanded non-english-speaking tourism to the gaeltacht? we're having a bit of a debate on the uilleann pipers' board...

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 896
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 05:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post


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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 102
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

you mean this one?

For years I've been unable to find the Rubicon on a map of Italy. I was under the impression that due to its size (it's been referred to as a little stream) its location had become obscured. Also, tradition has it that Caesar had been encamped at Ravenna which is about 30 miles north of the location on the map, and that he had marched south late at night with a small contingent of men, becoming lost and not finding his objective until morning. Seems like a lot of time, secrecy, and distance for a man who allegedly knew what he was doing. I'm not sure that's the Rubicon(e) of the story.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 211
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 02:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

that's the one that was said to be a little "river" that could be crossed on foot sans bridge etc...

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 103
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 08:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

maith go leor, a Antaine, agus go raibh maith agat.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 212
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

do I win a prize? ;o)



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