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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (January-February) » Archive through January 29, 2005 » Dia dhuit from Iowa, pt 2. « Previous Next »

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Orthohawk
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Username: Orthohawk

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 08:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Craig!! Email me: orthohawk@juno.com.

I'm also a beginner; rank beginner. I know the above greeting and about 20 other words (some in sentences).

Question: Just how different are the various dialects? And which one is closest to the "standard"?

Are there any rules that can get you close to somewhere near 90-100% correct in pronunciation (excluding looking in the dictionary :)), or is it just catch as catch can?

Go raibh maith agat.

douglas

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 68.227.171.190
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Doug,

Where in Iowa are you?

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Craig
Member
Username: Craig

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 01:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Doug, a chara !! :o)

I will be sending you an email in just a second. Where about in Iowa are you? Things are going great in trying to get a group together in Des Moines to work on learning Gaeilge. I am working with a great lady who owns "That Irish Shoppe" in West Des Moines, Iowa who is posting information on her website about getting together to learn the Irish language. Her website is: http://thatirishshoppe.com

There are many on here that can answer your question about dialects. I have been working with a pretty good CD-ROM from Fios Feasa by the title of An Chéad Choiscéim that has all the dialets in it. You just choose which one you want.

I just recently found my lineage roots all the way to Ireland and Scotland back to 1710. It is from Thomas Milliken that I came from and he settled in Pennsylvania by 1745 or so. They came from the Ulster area in Antrim and Co. Down as well as Dumfressire, Scotland. So I am learning as much as I can, in the Ulster dialect. A lady in Grinnell Iowa has training in Irish and Scots Gaelic and is willing to work with us. We are working out detail on when and where to meet up on a regular basis.

It would be grand if you were able to meet up with us and we could help each other along learn the language of our heretage.

You can email me as well at Craig@BaledHay.com

I am a hay grower just south of Des Moines. Féar is my bag, lol.

Go raibht maith agat for the post!

Is mise le meas,

Craig Milligan. d:^)

(PS. I am hoping to get a bunch together to do the emmersion weekend this summer in Minnesota, maybe you can come along?)

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.105
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:11 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gaeilge atá ar leic Spike Milligan a Chraig; Your probably know this already about Spike's tombstone: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3742443.stm

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Orthohawk
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Username: Orthohawk

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 02:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm from Iowa City. There is a pharmacy student here who's been to the Gaeltacht (sp?) the last few summers for language courses adn also one of the guys on the Uni gymnastics team is apparently wanting to learn (one of his teammates is in my slavic folklore class and told me about him)....so that's three of us!

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.105
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 02:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Fáilte romhat isteach a Orthohawk/ a Dhubhghlais.
You're welcome.

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Orthohawk
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Username: Orthohawk

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 09:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

go raibh maith agut, a Sheosamh!

now: I got the "Irish on your Own" book (the ulster course) and i'm getting a little miffed......it seems there are multiple pronunciations of practically every word! The examples I remember off the top of my head are dhá (i've heard "ghaw" and "yay") and bán (i've heard as many versions as there are people on the tapes it seems.) What gives?????

Munster dialect is seeiming more and more friendly even if they do use the full verbal paradigms :(

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Chris_c
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Username: Chris_c

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 11:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I work from the same book. Although several of the speakers do have different dialects, most of the variation you speak of is due to grammar variations (fadas, lenitions, etc...). You'll find the same sorts of things in the Munster dialect.

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Chinita
Member
Username: Chinita

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 02:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dia duit a Orthohawk!

Gabh mo leithscéal. Tá Irish on Your Own agam agus tá a fhios agam. The pronunciation is different at times on the cassettes. Obviously an Ulster geared book, the majority of the speakers speak in Ulster dialect, but they do try to throw in some "standard" pronunciation. I don´t know if this would be correct to say, because there is no real "standard" in irish, but they say Gaeilge Connachta is the closest to a "standard" pronunciation if there is one. I cannot tell you for sure.

I understand where you are coming from. Mar shampla, dúirt siad "Slán" mar /slawn/ nó /slayn/. /slawn/ would be Connaught and /slayn/ is Ulster. Majority of the time, if you hear á pronounced aw, it is Gaeilge Connachta. But for the most part, the cassettes pronounce in Ultser dialect.

You will also notice that you only find some words/phrases like "Chífidh mé tú" in the Ulster dialect. Ulster is very different to Munster and Connaught. If you said that to a person who speaks Connaught or Munster, they probably won´t understand you.

I know this can be very confusing at the beginning, but if you like Ulster dialect, I would say don´t give up on it. Tá mé ag foghlaim go fóill. I am only in Unit 17 so far, agus is maith liom é. Even though it´s quite tough, I love a challenge :)

Slán go fóill,
Christine

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 17
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 02:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

>"The examples I remember off the top of my head >are dhá (i've heard "ghaw" and "yay")

"ghaw" is the Munster and Connemara pronounciation. "yay" is the pronounciation used in Gweedore, Western Co. Donegal, and a bit around. Elsewhere in Donegal, they say "ghay".

>and bán >(i've heard as many versions as there are people on the tapes it seems.) What gives????? "

bán is pronounced bawn in Munster and Connemara, bwayn in Ulster.


>Munster dialect is seeiming more and more >friendly even if they do use the full verbal >paradigms :(

I think that's not right... Have a look at "An Teanga Bheo, Corca Dhuibhne" and you'll see how strange it is, especially in pronounciation - there are many irregularities, and it's quite hard to know which syllable is stressed in words (in Donegal it's easy, always on the first syllable, except in compound words). The closer dialect to Standard is Connemara one, but there still are many features in Connemara Irish that aren't found in the Standard. Connemara Irish is the dialect having the simplest morphology, but apart from that, it's not easier or more difficult than the two others.

About what Christine wrote above > Connaught Irish is said Gaeilge Chonnacht in Irish (Connacht is the genitive of Connachta).
Connaught and Connemara shouldn't be mixed up in your minds: Connaught is the middle western province, in which are Co. Galway, Co. Mayo etc. Connemara is a part of Co. Galway. It's not right to say that one feature or another is a feature of Connaught Irish: in North Connaught there are dialects that are much closer to Ulster dialects than to Connemara...


(Message edited by Lughaidh on January 24, 2005)

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Chinita
Member
Username: Chinita

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 03:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Lughaidh,

Go raibh maith agat a chara.

I am not always thinking correctly sometimes, but you know me :P Actually, I posted this when I should really be working. Let's just hope I don't get caught at work :P

Thanks for correcting me :)

Tchífidh mé anonn thú,
Christine

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Orthohawk
Member
Username: Orthohawk

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 10:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ah.......well, the "ay" pronunciation of ♣ is what I heard for b♣n but then another person said it "the right way" (like "aw"). I wish they'd given a "usual Ulster" pronunciation scheme......



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