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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (January-February) » Archive through January 29, 2005 » Stupid question « Previous Next »

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Odriscoll
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Username: Odriscoll

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 03:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm sorry for being so stupid but I've yet to purchase a good Irish-English dictionary and have been using on-line dictionaries to date - really bad choice I know.

Anyway is the word "craic" masculine or feminine?

And, if you want to say something is "great fun" or that you had a "great (- as in either really good or possibly even really long) chat" would it be:

craic mór?? craic mhór?? I'm really just coming out of the starting blocks in this language and feel so stupid asking such a simple question. Thanks for any help (and I promise I'll find a good dictionary somewhere soon!)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 757
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 04:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bhí craic iontach againn
B'iontach an craic a bhí againn
Bhí craic ar dóigh againn


Fch anseo: http://www.csis.ul.ie/focloir/
craic [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
scoilt bheag; caint is comhrá.

Foirmeacha
craic [ainmneach uatha]
craice [ginideach uatha]
craiceanna [ainmneach iolra]
craiceanna [ginideach iolra]

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Odriscoll
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Username: Odriscoll

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 04:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thank you Aonghus for your reply and for the site of a good Irish dictionary. I'll take the time to go through an Irish-English one to fugire out what you actually said but - that's even better because, in the end, I'll learn more.

Go Raibh Maith Agat.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 152
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 11:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

that one is good, and englishirishdictionary.com is good too...worth the subscription especially when you consider that it's WAP accessible from your cell phone...

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 350
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 05:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"craic" is feminine:

an chraic
na craiceanna
údar na craice
údair na gcraiceanna

It was great craic!
An-chraic a bhí ann!

Great craic!
An-chraic!

That's how I say it.

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Odriscoll
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Username: Odriscoll

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 03:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thank you Fear na mbróg for that answer. What little I've absorbed of the language so far seems to confirm just what I've learned when tackling a new language before - there are probably many ways to say something, all of which may be correct in the same or different context. Sometimes it's a matter of geographically-based idioms or colloquialisms, sometimes just a matter of preference. Hence the problem I have when someone asks me to translate english to french for them. Too many choices! Also, they get upset if I say - "You can't really say that in French but perhaps this will get the idea across..." I recall someone speaking to me in English, with no other accent at all, saying that "We were four in the car." I said, surprised, "Are you French??" He was surprised that I could tell by that one sentence which, after all was grammatically correct, just not the way that most English-speakers in our neck of the woods would say it. Language - what a fascinating field of study!

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Éamann
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Username: Éamann

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 03:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

there are no stupid questions, just stupid people :)

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Jax (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 159.134.220.231
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 08:26 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

There has been a lot of talk about idiom in these page, musings to the direction of "Oh, is this word truly Gaelic? Is English? Is it natural to use it here? Am I attenuating my Irish by such inclusions?" etc. Well ‘craic’ might be another, perhaps unobtrusive example of a little English weasel in the langue, that because of its gaelicised spelling, appears Irish as Darby O' Gill, red haired children, and asses donkeys carrying creels of turf...Google did say much on the origins, but I will give my tuppence.

Correct me if you wish, but I was under the assumption that 'craic' is the porting over of the Hiberno-English word 'crack' meaning to have fun, colloquially in the sense 'havin' de crack, ladd' or some such regionalism which suitably portrays the theme of going out, having fun, or messing about and finding enjoyment. (Its more than a noun in a way, its an aesthetic; you don’t have it, you’re in it).

In Ireland, it can contextually refer to the female genitalia, an obvious reference to the labial folds and sexual orifice. Those who would use the rather unnatural 'thóg mé mo craic, oíche aréir' or anglically 'I got some crack last night' under the assumption that one was talking about prior fun one engaged in, might be surprised to be greeted with laughter on the English side of the equation given the overtones.

No doubt, this detracts nowth from its usage in Irish, or indeed its requisite engenderisation as discussed in the posts above, its just some linguistic gubbins add to the discussion.

Jax

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 356
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 05:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well "craic", the Irish word in the Irish language, came first.

Then people were speaking English, and they continued to speak a word which sounded "crak".

Then it came time for some-one to write this word in a letter or something, they had to decide how to spell it. Under English spelling, it comes out as "crack", bearing no relationship whatosever to its homonym which refers to "a splinter or split in an object".

I myself, on the internet in anyway, spell it "craic" simply to distinguish it from "crack cocaine". Some people interpret "There was great crack last night." as "There was great crack cocaine last night", which is understandable.

As for other meanings of the word "crack", where I come from in anyway it refers to the parting between your two arse cheeks rather than the vulva. Either way, this word most certainly does have a relationship with the word "crack" as in "a splinter or split in an object", and it has nothing to do with "craic".

As for, "I got some crack last night", I've never heard that phrase when refering to sex. If you said it to me now, I'd presume you meant crack cocaine. I have heard in its place though, "I got my hole last night", although it's thought of by most to be a vulgar expression.

Now that the sexual and anatomical ambiguities are out of the way, can we get back to Gaeilge?!

Actually, one more thing...

How in the name of Christ can you speak so many languages! Have you got a special brain? Sort-of like those guys that can remember the order of 10 decks of cards? Photographic memory or anything like that? Seems like a superhuman ability in anyway. . .

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Odriscoll
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Username: Odriscoll

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 08:36 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Personally, I think we have an almost unlimited ability to learn new languages, or any new skills in which we have an interest. I find, in studying Italian and German, and yes, even from my beginnings with Irish, that, given my proficiency in French and English, each one is a little easier because there are always similarities that can be drawn, one language to another, which help me remember. Then, at some point (which I'm a long way from reaching in Italian and Irish) you find yourself actually thinking in the language instead of translating in your head. I call that my "Eureka Moment". The important thing for me when learning a new language is to truly start myself at ground zero, giving up any preconceived grammatical structures and other "rules" from my native English. Like someone else commented on another thread here, I also prefer to learn the spoken and written word together. I have a better idea of the correct pronunciation if I see it written as well. I remember, many years ago, when learning French as an adult, that one thing I persistently mispronounced was the French for "percent". Because I had only ever heard it spoken, I mistakenly thought the word was spelled the same as in English but pronounced with a French accent. It was only when I finally saw it written as "pour cent" that I started to pronounce it correctly. (As an accountant, it was a word I used frequently!)Anyway, enough for now. Best of luck to all of us trying to become multi-lingual!

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Jax (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 159.134.221.205
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 01:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Fear na mBróg,

"---As for, "I got some crack last night", I've never heard that phrase when refering to sex. If you said it to me now, I'd presume you meant crack cocaine. I have heard in its place though, "I got my hole last night", although it's thought of by most to be a vulgar expression.---"

I would have given the example about the 'hole' above too in my post, which I first heard in Dublin, but I don't like it. Its not the vulgarity, its how it implies humans are meat and it is somewhat abusive in tone. Or perhaps the speakers I heard were scangers! Probably more so, as I would'nt be too easily offended by such things. Crack is now more used as for the arse, of course. I should have mentioned a) context, which would have made the example clear, and b) childishness on the part of some country listeners!

As for the languages, if you're refering to my post in another thread, it is pure sarcasm. Simple as that. The initial action to start a post and then tell of all the langues one spoke, looked like pure boasting, thus the reference to the long mirror (to admire ones self in) and a langue with many boast words...of course, I commend anyone who has the faculty and the good heart to spend time honing linguitic skills, as the poster (Jonas) has done. It was a joke becasue if one steps up, clears ones troat, and starts listing off all ones skill in a social context, it looks odd, in Ireland at least. Thus, I took a dig at him with a wink ;)

For a European to have learnt Gaeilge so proficently is furlongs beyond the tokenism and Paddyism that have historically cronically undermined our national well being, and it has been all too painfully obvious Paddy is good for the craic, but with lip service dosen't take things too seriously. A strong self assured country, be it Anglo-Irish, or more preferably, Gaelic, is better able to deal with its own problems and is more likely to support its populas towards its dreams. For in the end of the day, it is national or group or ethnic or tribal level dreams that are the the umbrella for personal dreams (groups can be a massive influence on the sort of dreams one can manifest). If Gaeilge is to be spoken again in Ireland, it must by definition become part of the consensus of either a group, a region, a class, or a profession where it is hegmonic. It is been undercut by its current 'floating' position. The last 10 years have lessened the pressure in Irish and make it socially more OK to be Gaelic. This, along with gaelscoilanna, TG4 and foreign learners to na Gaeltachtaí has meant more resources are flowing that way, and makes it easier for any group to polarise into the extreme of Gaelic only. Whether that will happen, and any group can live a contempory life thru Gaelic alone,I don't know. This is a period of history with global markets, so perhaps no-one can afford to do so anyway, but times change.

I do know though, the British gig is up. Europe and internationally is where it is at. Many people of import in Ireland still attune to Britain, a failed and failing country with an insular and backward culture, at a time when looking outward toward the eclecticism and nuance that cognisance of European, Arabic, far Eastern and indigenous culture can bring so much rewards, is a sad reflexion on the lack of vision and imagination of our leadership at this time. Culturally, economically and socially as there is so much more information available to enable good choices to be made.

This is not a rant, I just wrote a lot!

Jax

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 779
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 05:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Mostly a fair enough point, Jax.

But I think Jonas had a right to feel offended, since, if you had been lurking here for a while or hard looked at the archives, you would have known that he wasn't boasting.

It's also fairly clear that Jonas intended to "seed" the thread, which is fair enough.



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