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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (January-February) » Archive through January 14, 2005 » How common is this ? « Previous Next »

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 80.58.36.235
Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In Micheal Ó Siadhail's Learning Irish in Chapter 3 Texts there is a sentence
Tá bóthar Thir na Fhia ansin.
which is translated as ' The Tir na Fhia road is there '
Now I understand that the lenition in Thir donates that it is something that belongs to Tir na Fhia and I understand perfectly the make up and intention of the sentence but putting 'the' in the translation threw me a bit and got me wondering if this is common usage for this type of expression , ie . Is ' The road to dublin ' acceptable as 'An Bhóthar Bhaile atha Cliath '? This for me would be 'The road belonging to Dublin '
Which begs another question is
'An bhóthar go dti Baile atha Cliath 'wrong ? Is there another form to express ' to ' ? in this context?

Thanks in advance

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 80.58.36.235
Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sorry , I forgot to ask
would this sentence not be more correct if it was translated as ' A road to Tir na Fhia is there '

As i say it was the use of ' the ' without ' an ' in the sentence that through me and was wondering if this is a common occurence.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 80.58.36.235
Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:41 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

This is turning into my own litle thread , my apologies but I have just come accross something similar in the same lesson and would appreciate some clarification on it .
There is a sentence which says

Tá feilméaraí Chiarraí sásta ach nil feilméaraí Chonamara sásta

Again it is translated using the english article 'the'

The Kerry farmers are content but the Conamara farmers are not content.

Given that ' Kerry's Farmers ' or 'Farmers of Kerry ' would be suitable and grammatically correct I am perplexed as to why the definte article is used here , especially since this part of the book has not even introduced the definite article plural at this point

Again my question is would

'Tá na feilméaraí Chiarraí sásta'

not be more correct ? and if not , why not ? and again how common is htis ?

thanks for you indulgence

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 741
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 12:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Irish does not use the definite article for something which is obviously definite.
English frequently does.

e.g. Muintir Chiarraí - The people of Kerry. (This is not quite the same as "Kerry's people", unless you are of the "word for word" translation school. From what I remember of Ó Siadhail, he isn't. He translates stuff to idiomatic english. Perhaps that is what is confusing you).

Bóthar Bhaile Átha Cliath - the road to dublin, a specific road in a specific place.

An bóthar go Baile Atha Cliath - ditto.

An bóthar Bhaile Átha Cliath - wrong!



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