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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (January-February) » Archive through January 14, 2005 » Dia duit from Iowa « Previous Next »

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Craig
Member
Username: Craig

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 12:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I am a hay grower in Iowa just south of Des Moines. I have been interested for many years in embracing my Irish roots and that includes the native tongue as well. The language is beautiful to hear it spoken and I hope to master it one day. I have been "lurking" about here to pick up on language structure and how it works. I can only memorize so many phrases without knowing how the language is put together and need pointed in the right direction. I am sure that there are not many in my area that speak Irish and hope to maybe head up to Minnesota to one of the emmersion weekend things next year. We do have a large group here that have formed a Celtic Music Association and perhaps I could use that group as a basis to form a learning group of our own.

I have been looking for a "nuts and bolts" site to get started with and found this one:

http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html

I was wondering if any of you would be so kind as to let me know what you think of it as a starting out point in learning how the language works and to any other suggestions that you might have.

I want to learn it right the first time as it is harder to un-learn and re-learn it than doing it right the first time.

Thanks so much for everything! d:^)

Craig.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 521
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 02:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well, considering this caveat from the site:...

quote:

This guide is not intended for linguists or people who are learning Irish as a language.



If you are prepared to spend some money, I suggest http://www.gaeltalk.net might be better.

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 65
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 02:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aonghus agus Chraig, a chairde,

I would agree that Daltaí is not enough to insure 'getting it right the first time,' but I wouldn't leave this site entirely. The benefits of hanging out here are subtle and only noticeable over time, but they are very real. This site is like having a support group to back up treatment.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 522
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 02:26 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The quote was not from Daltaí, but was from the site Craig quoted - which only aims to help musicians pronounce names correctly.

I'd agree that the Daltaí website is a great resource; the site I mentioned however is offering e-learning classes with native speakers from Oiléain Chléire.

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 67
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 02:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Buíochas, a chara. That's what comes from reading too fast. Maithigí mé.

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Lúcas
Member
Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 75
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 02:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Craig,

If you "want to learn it right the first time" then you might want to avoid http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html because the author left out "a few subtle differences" between broad and slender consonants. I think you will be better served by learning those subtle differences in the beginning. This site http://www.daltai.com/key.htm gives the pronunciation in sound files and written in the same phonetic alphabet used by Foclóir Poca.

There are several sites on the Internet that give lessons in the Irish language. One of the better ones was written by a member of this forum, Kay Uí Chinnéide, login: kay, at http://www.gaeilgenaseachtaine.com/ She offers themes, topics of conversation which introduce words, phrases, and pronunciation with sound files, and grammar, which explains the languages syntax. The sound waves have a lovely Munster accent.

The BBC has put together an nice introduction to Irish with an Ulster accent called Giota Beag at http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/blas/learners/beag1.shtml It has graded lessons with sound files to accompany the dialogue.

If you are willing to spend a little money you can use the Internet to interact with a real teach at http://homepage.eircom.net/~eofeasa/page1.htm
They have graded lessons with homework that the teacher corrects and returns to you. They also have a freebe http://www.fiosfeasa.com/bearla/language/intro.htm

Another site that charges for lessons is at
http://www.gaeltalk.net/

There is an organization called Foras na Gaeilge (The Irish Institution) that give hints on learning Irish at http://www.forasnagaeilge.ie/default1.asp?lang=en

Other sites to learn Irish:
http://carla.acad.umn.edu/VPA/Irish/exercises.html
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/gaeilge/gaelic.html
http://www.irishpage.com/irishpeople/

Is leathoibre tús maith.
Irish Proverb: A good start id half the work.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 69
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 04:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Maithigí mé.

Make that maithigí dom (I think.)

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Seán a' Chaipín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 82.69.43.131
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 04:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi Craig,

Céad míle fáilte romhat.

If you go to http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com and look in the section marked "Resources" you'll find a good collection of links for ways to learn Irish.

AFAIK, your own name, Craig derives from the Gaelic word Carraig, meaning "rock".

It may have been a Celtic alternative for the name "Peter" which comes from the Greek word for rock "petrus".

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 71
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 09:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I wonder if the English word 'crag' is of the same root?

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 524
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 06:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Lúcas - "Tús maith leath na hoibre" a bhí i gceist agat, seans?

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Lúcas
Member
Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 76
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 11:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bhí, a Aonghuis. GRMA. Rinné mé dearmad ar an alt, ach níl mé cinnte anois cad is an ainmní don seanfhocail seo. Ceapim gur abairt aicme é mar sin is é an t-anmní "leath na oibre." An bhfuil ceart agam?

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Craig
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Username: Craig

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 02:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat! Thank you all so very much for all the information, I truly appreciate it. I will look at each of the sites posted. One of them, http://www.gaeltalk.net/ was mentioned a couple of times, so they must be pretty good. I would be willing to spend a bit o the green to get started out on the right foot.

I noticed that there are about 3 different dialects of Irish. Which one is the best one to learn Irish in? Which type does Daltaí use in the sound files that I have been trying to memorize?

I knew that my first name was Irish for "the rock". Is Chraig how it is spelled in Irish?

One day I hope to get over to the land of my roots and spend a month or so "taking it all in".

I know that it will take much work to get it to where I can be fluent in it, but am willing to give it a good go. Thanks again for all your help everyone. I will be a regular here I am sure and hope to get to know you all better.

Slán,

Craig.

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Seán a' Chaipín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 82.69.43.128
Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 03:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

No, Craig.

There is no Irish language original version of your name. There may be in Scottish Gaelic, possibly.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 530
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 04:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

creag
a rock, so Irish; a curtailed form of carraig. Also (Dialectically) craig. Hence English crag.
(From Mac Bain's etymology dictionary; compare also an foclóir beag creagach, rocky)


What Craig meant, correctly, is that his name sounds like one of the (many) Irish words for rock.

A Lúcás; níl an tsaghas san gramadach agam, ach tá dealreamh leis an méid a dúrais.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 312
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 06:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Maithigí dom" is correct, a Phádraig.

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Lúcas
Member
Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 12:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Craig, aka Rock,

The voice on the Daltaí pronunciation key is that of Cormac MacFhionnlaoich who, I think, has a slight Munster accent. I know it is not Ulster because of the way he pronounces radharc. In Donegal, you hear it pronounced with a short 'a', whereas the other Gaeltachts uses the 'ai' dipthong. I think I hear him voicing the broad bh sound which suggests a Munster accent.

Which dialect is best to learn is a matter of opinion. In fact, there are more then three dialects. O Siadhal classifies them as follows:

Ulster
  • South Donegal
    • Teelin
    • Glencolumbkille
    • Meeawania
  • Mid-Donegal
    • Glenfin
  • North Donegal

    • Rannafast
    • Torr
    • Gweedore
    • Rosguill


Connacht
  • Galway
    • West Galway/Connemara
      • Aran Islands

        • Inishere
        • Inishmaan
        • Inishmore

      • Cois Fhairrige
      • Rosmuck
      • Lettermore
      • Carna
      • Leenane
    • East Galway
      • Menlough
  • Mayo
    • North Mayo
      • Erris

    • South Mayo

      • Tourakmeady

Munster
  • Kerry

    • Blasket Island
    • Dunquin
    • Iveraigh
      • Waterville
  • Cork
    • West Cork
      • Berehaven
      • West Carberry
      • Clear Island
      • West Muskerry
      • East Carberry
    • East Cork
      • Ballymacoda
  • Waterford
    • Ring

I did not include branches that have extinct dialects. For example, my ancestors spoke an Urris dialect which some linguists would have classified as an East Ulster dialect. All the Donegal dialects would be classified as West Ulster dialects.

It seems like every town or parish in the Gaeltacht has its own dialect. Linguists who describe these dialects actually focus in on the dialect of one or two speakers. For example, de Bhaldraithe wrote called The Irish of Cois Fhairrge in which he based his description on the speech of Micheál Ging.

So pick a class of dialect that interests you. No matter which one you select, some linguist somewhere is likely to classify your dialect as a hybrid dialect.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Lúcas
Member
Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 79
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 04:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Aonghuis, a chara,

Ní raibh mé i gceart leis an seanfochail de réir Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithe Críostaí:

16.9 Tugtar an t-ainmní chun tosaigh corruair eile freisin: tír gan teanga tír gan anam. Ar tír gan anam a chuirtear béim an ghutha; agus lena chois sin, is léir nach gá go mbeadh tír gan anam ina tír gan teanga, dhá rud a chuireann in iúl dúinn gur ar deireadh atá an fhaisnéis.

Cuirtear béim ar an 'tús maith' sa chás seo. Sin é an rud tabhactacht san abairt seo agus is léir nach gá go mbeadh tús maith ina leath na oibre. Má rinne duine eile leath na oibre gur cuma le tús maith nó gan tús maith. Mar gheal ar is iad na focail 'tús maith' an ainmní don seanfhocail seo. Sin í an chúis atá an Béarla air "A good beginning is half the work" in áit "Half the work is a good beginning."

Bíonn a lán rialacha na Grammadaigh ach bíonn eisceachtaí níos mó ann.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 536
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 04:30 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is fíor dhuit. Mar a deirim, is annamh a smaoiním ar ghramadach, agus bíonn drogall orm é a dhéanamh.

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Craig
Member
Username: Craig

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 12:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat a Lúcas. I think that you are right in when I get the "hang of it", I will have a "mongrel" version of Irish and when I go to Ireland one day, the locals will pick up on it I am sure.

Wouldn't it be grand to go back in time and listen to the real old timers speak as Gaeilge, before it got influenced by English?

I am having craic looking through the websites posted.

Is it possible to learn Irish well via the internet only? It would seem to me that you would almost need to see someone face to face to "get your lips" around the words and to have one on one conversation to get real comfortable with the language and also to have accountability with someone to keep pushing on to getting better.

I hope to find others involved with the Celtic Music Association that might be interested in learning Irish with me so that I could practice the usage more and gain fluency faster. BTW, here is their website: http://www.thecma.org/ I just love tradional Celtic music, it must be in the genes. d:^) I also had a word question, many of you use the greeting... a charde, or a chara. I haven't been able to find that in a dictionary online, what does it mean and how is it pronounced?

It seems that most here like the Munster dialet, so I hope to go that direction as well as trying to hear the difference in the others as well. Are they so different that most would have a hard time talking to someone with a different dialect?

Thanks to all for helping out a "green horn" get started. For me, it seems that there is a yearning to connect with those who came before me. Learning what was part of their lives, their language, is a living legacy to them.

Slán,

Craig. d:^)
Is leathoibre tús maith.

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Seán a' Chaipín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 81.136.19.225
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 02:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

[quote]For me, it seems that there is a yearning to connect with those who came before me. Learning what was part of their lives, their language, is a living legacy to them.
[/quote]

Yes, we all feel that, even those of us born and raised in Ireland.

"A chara" means "O friend". You'll find the word "cara" in a dictionary. Howvever, when you address someone as "O friend" you soften the C from a K-sound to a H-sound, signified in writing by adding a H after the C.

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Lúcas
Member
Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 80
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 05:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Craig,

Forgive me, but as Aonghus pointed out above, I got the proverb backwards and forgot a definite article. It should be "tús maith leath na hoibre."

I think it will be a challenge to learn Irish in the absence of others to practice conversation. However, I think everyone here agrees that the key is to practice regularly, a little everyday if you can.

Ádh mór, (good luck).

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Dearg
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Username: Dearg

Post Number: 17
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 05:43 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

[quote]
I am sure that there are not many in my area that speak Irish and hope to maybe head up to Minnesota to one of the emmersion weekend things next year.
[/quote]

Craig,

I'm fairly new to daltai.com, but I've been taking weekly classes in the Minnesota Gaeltacht for over a year. We're having a Christmas/Holiday party next week. Maybe you can join us? There's more info on the web site:

http://www.gaelminn.org

Failte!

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Craig
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Username: Craig

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dearg, a chara, :o)

Thank you so much for the invitation to your party. If you were a wee bit closer I would bop on up. Being in the hay growing business, this is a busy time selling "horse food" and I can't take off for 2 days right now, but I hope to come up to one of your emmersion weekends next year.

I signed up on the gaelminn website to get on the mailing list and emails. Will Kenny wrote me right back and was most helpful. He wrote about your weekend in Minona next summer. I hope to be there.

I have been asking around my area and found out that there is a Celtic Music jam session at a local coffee place in downtown Des Moines on the 2nd Tuesday of each month, and that a lady usually comes by that is a Gaeilge speaker and helps folks with their learning. Oh, boy, can't wait to meet with that group.

Hopefully I can round up enough interested folks to make a good car full to come on up to the weekend in Minona next summer.

Thanks again for the reply and invite to your party. I wish I could be there. Be sure to have the craic.


Slán,

Craig. d:^)

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Craig
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Username: Craig

Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 01:46 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Good News. :o)

My persistance is paying off in finding others in my area who want to learn Irish. A local Irish specialty shop, "That Irish Shoppe", ( http://thatirishshoppe.com ) has put a notice about getting a group together in the Des Moines, Iowa area to learn Gaelige in their newsletter and email notices to other Irish people in the area. A few have emailed me and we hope to meet at least once a month at the afore mentioned coffee shop.

The Irish speaker has mostly Scottish Gaelic experience, so we might end up with a Scots sound to our Irish, lol.

I hope that we will set a goal of getting truly fluent in the Irish language, and of making good friendships while doing it.

Padraig is correct above in that we need each other to keep getting better at it. I am finding that the more that I read at this forum, the more bits and pieces I am picking up on the little details of the language.

Slán agus Nollaig Shona dhuit! Is mise le meas,

Craig. d:^)


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Robin
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Username: Robin

Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 09:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Craig,

Please post the information on your meetings. I'm in Omaha and might be able to drive up now and then depending on when you meet. Go raibh maith agat.

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Craig
Member
Username: Craig

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 11:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dia duit a Robin, :o)

Thanks for the reply. It would be great if you wanted to join in with us when you can. So far the plan is to meet on the 2nd Tuesday of each month at Java Joe's on 4th Street in Downtown Des Moines, Iowa just before the Irish Jam Night at 7:30 PM.

If you would like to keep in touch, feel free to email me anytime. Email Addy is: Craig at BaledHay dot com

I remember seeing a teacher listed for the state of Nebraska in Lincoln on this site. You might want to check out to see if you have a teacher of Irish in Nebraska as well.

There are a lot of us who LOVE Celtic music and I am hoping that some of them would want to learn the language as well. If you come on over and join in with us, after the lessons, we'll have the craic listening to some Irish bands as well. d:^)

Is mise le meas,

Craig. d:^)

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Robin
Member
Username: Robin

Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 09:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Craig, (a Chraig?, did we decide on this?? :-))

That sounds like a blast! I don't know if I will try to join you in winter, I'm not wild about driving 3 hours late at night in the cold, but may try to come in better weather. (The older I get, the more of a chicken I become. sigh)

There is a teacher listed in Kearney, not Lincoln (unless someone's been added). I've written him, and he suggested a book for me which I will order after the holidays and can afford to spend money on myself again. :-) I also found a woman at Creighton who may offer a class next fall, but says she's too swamped this year. I'm tentatively planning on doing the Minnesota class in February too. If I find anything else, I'll let you know -

Is mise le meas,

Robin

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Pan (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 82.18.36.44
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 08:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does anybody know what "tha mha ghat" could mean? I don't know anything of the irish language at all and i might have misspelled it. Thanks a lot for your help

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Pbrady
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Username: Pbrady

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 07:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think it is
Go raibh maith agat = Thank you.

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 334
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 04:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"tha mha ghat"

That's not Irish. If I were to guess, I'd say it's Scotts' Gaelic.

Taking the phrase, "Go raibh maith agat". The verb in that sentence is "Go raibh", a form of which in a particular tense is "Tá"; so:

tha mha ghat

does resemble:

tá maith agat

a bit.

So I'd agree with Pbrady, it probably means "Thanks".

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Kay
Member
Username: Kay

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 09:55 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a Lúchais as a dúirt tú mar gheall ar mo shuíomh -"Gaeilge na Seachtaine". Athbhliain faoi shéan is faoi mhaise duit agus nár leaga Dia do láimh.

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 95
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 07:30 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go ndéana maith duit, a Kay. Molann an obair an bhean.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas



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