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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through December 12, 2004 » An Teanga Nua « Previous Next »

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Méféin
Member
Username: Méféin

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post

What do people make of this idea?

http://www.celtichosting.com/teanganua/aspbite/categories/index.asp

Being someone who struggled with irish despite having learnt it for 13 years in school it sounds like an interesting idea to me.

I'm curious to hear what irish speakers and others have to say on this.

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Jonas
Member
Username: Jonas

Post Number: 555
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm more than happy to express my opinion, so here goes:

This sounds as the most idiotic idea I've heard in ages

What that bizarre homepage is suggesting is nothing short of destroying the Irish language. Simplificating the language? Making it more regular? Irish is much more regular than English, with regards to both spelling and grammar! It's of course a bit ironic that the English at that particular page is so bad...

Bai thö wej, waj dount dhej södjest ö rifoorm tu thö grotesk wej ov spelling inglish?

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Akidd
Member
Username: Akidd

Post Number: 41
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post

the danish people use to spell ae, oe, ue.
its formally legal in german, too. they have a sharp 's', its a uglycule from the greek, and can substituted double s= 'strasse' for street. the german are so intelligent, that they can make the difference between 'strass' meaning false brilliants, and 'strasse' meaning street.

but noboty would write 'strase'.

in irish, its t-sraid, would it be neccessary to introduce 'tsraid', or can these forms be memorized?

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Akidd
Member
Username: Akidd

Post Number: 42
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 11:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post

for the teanganua site: there is no members directory, a feature almost any online community posesses.

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Jonas
Member
Username: Jonas

Post Number: 556
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

the danish people use to spell ae, oe, ue.

No, neither Danish, Swedish nor Norwegian have the combinations 'ae', 'oe', 'ue'. In foreign papers these combinations can sometimes be seen instead of our 'ä', 'ö', 'y' respectivly but they are certainly not used in our languages.

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Méféin
Member
Username: Méféin

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

hasnt irish already been changed a lot in recent times tho? as far as i was aware they just threw together the various dialects into standard irish, put in H's instead of dots over the letters and tried to backdate some of the spelling to original versions? (feel free to correct me on this, my knowledge of the history of the irish language is somewhat limited)

i agree in general that irish is closer to being phonetic than english, but the abundance of silent letters among other things trips up ppl like myself with a poor command of the language.

i know messing around trying to simply irish wont appeal to many ppl on here, but surely anything that prevents irish from it's imminent demise can only be a good thing? and it is gradually being squeezed out. most gaelteacht areas are in decline.

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Akidd
Member
Username: Akidd

Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

thats why we need labels in english and irish by law.

leaving out a,e,i,o,u is not a good idea. there were such languages, but with points and hooks.

people -| peepl or peepel, as far as i know, its spelled slightly different, the 'o' is not completely silent.

but i am not a linguist for human languages.


the emulation empire

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Akidd
Member
Username: Akidd

Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

you ever heard of a LCD display- thats stupidity. its actually a Liquid Crystal Display.


the emulation empire

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Lúcas
Member
Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 85
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I heartily agree with Jonas. It is a stupid idea and an idiotic agenda:

  • standardisation -- Done. The Caighdeán Oifigiúil standardized the spelling and grammar fifty years ago. A standard pronunication, Lárchanúint don Gaeilge, was introduced thirty years ago to ease learners into the language.
  • modernisation -- Why? The Gaelscoileanna have Irish texts for math and science already. Attempts to bar the door to foriegn words is foolish and futile. Irish already has a rich technical vocabularly; see http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaeilge/foclora/abhair/riomhaire.html#riomhaire as an example.
  • regalicization -- What? I failed to find a defintion of this neologism on the site, in my dictioniaries, in Google, and in Yahoo. What are they talking about?!


I empathize with those who struggle with learning the language. I think most of us wrestle with the same difficulties, but dumbing down the language is not the answer. Better teaching methods and tools are.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Akidd
Member
Username: Akidd

Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 02:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Jonas:

its one letter in danish, but it looks like 'ae' . old-fashioned german texts have 'oe' sometimes, and i have seen 'oesterreich' (name of a country next germany and switzerland)

i can vaguely remeber the spelling 'Luek' rather than 'Luk'. ok, the letter is not there...


the emulation empire

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Akidd
Member
Username: Akidd

Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

the japanese are still using chinese, overlaying the own writing, and have included western words.

esperanto may get a language for some purposes, but it will definetively not replace english. try to make the word uglycule in esperanto...........

it should be designed in such a way that is will not be a replacement, but the lessmost agreeable common content, including the 'eastwards' languages, like estonian etc.


the emulation empire

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Méféin
Member
Username: Méféin

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Akidd, what exactly does "uglycule" mean? its not in the dictionary, did u mispell it?

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Dearg
Member
Username: Dearg

Post Number: 20
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I, too, agree with Jonas and Lúcas. Silly idea.

If a language is irrelevant (i.e., there is no political, economic, or religious requirement for its use) then it will die. As long as the Irish government refuses to require the use of Irish in day-to-day business, it will no longer be a living langauge.

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Akidd
Member
Username: Akidd

Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Méféin, its derived from ridicule, means a ridiciulous thing or event (rather not a being), one can say about a slum it would be a ridicule.

i were not expecting it to be found in a dictionary. these can be of use, but its like you take a sample of real speech.

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Akidd
Member
Username: Akidd

Post Number: 53
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 03:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dearg, it would be important to determine, for ireland or what country ever, if the government communicates to common people, is dealing with their requests, in english. there is a gaelic tv-channel, not too political, but somehow, explaining the reality of northern ireland recently.

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James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 78
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 04:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

This sounds like E-bonics for Irish. A wholly rediculous and stupid approach to teaching any language! The presumption is that the language is "too hard" and "kids just can't learn it." More evidence of the "dumbing down" of the western educational approach and completely devoid of any semblance of respect for the intellect of the student. Complete balderdash!

If a 40+ year old guy in the rural south can learn Irish under its current rules of grammar, then by golly, anyone can!

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(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 12.75.181.230
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 08:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

From what I saw on the website, Mr. O'Carthaigh should work first on his English. Every paragraph has at least one word spelt wrong.



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