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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through December 27, 2004 » Old irish « Previous Next »

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Cailín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 212.2.171.94
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi! I'm looking for help on Keatings History of Ireland. The Irish is different in it. It's not modern. I've checked some old irish websites and they can't help me. Does anyone know the translations for these words:
-cuiris
-riú
-mnaoi
-gona
-triallaid
-uaislibh
I have a rough translation for one of them (triallaid) that it means journey but why are these forms different?

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Seán a Chaipín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 81.136.19.225
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 05:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Well, it might be a help to look at the online texts:

This is the English translation:

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T100054/index.html

This is the original text:

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G100054/index.html

I can help you with two of your questions:

mnaoi = woman
uaislibh = nobles (uaisle) the "-ibh" bit indicates plural in Munster Irish.

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Julia (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 67.101.60.155
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 07:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

From looking at my Quin's Dictionary of Old Irish, I'm guessing gona is from gonaid=pierces or wounds; cuiris might be from cuirid=causes; and riu might be from renaid=sell but I wouldn't bet the farm on that one. Are these words used all in one sentence or are the spread throughout the text? Keating is used as a source in Quin but unfortunately not for any of these words.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 564
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 05:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

gona = with their

Please give more context (Page numbers if you have the Padraig de Barra edition. If you do, there is a helpful Glossary at the back).

Keating is Early Modern Irish rather than old Irish; you ought to be able to find most of these words in Dineen.

(Message edited by aonghus on December 10, 2004)

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Diarmo
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Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 78
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 05:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post

uaislibh = nobles (uaisle) the "-ibh" bit indicates plural in Munster Irish.

How is the -ibh bit prounonced in Munster Irish like -iv or differently?? eg Gaedealaibh ..gwayliv? and is it still in use there??

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 06:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Is mithid duit ceist a chur orainn i nGaeilge faoin am seo a Chailín! Ar mhaithe leat féin a deirim. Más san uisce thú, scaoil leis an mballa agus bí ag snámh. Mura ndéanfair an iarracht sin, do lámh a scaoileadh den bhalla, is ag iarraidh snámh ar leathláimh a bheas tú, nach ea?

Caithfear an iarracht sin a dhéanamh sa chéad bhliain. Bíonn an tríú bliain rómhall.

Dála an scéil, measaim go bhfreagróinn ceist Ghaeilge faoin gCéitinneach anseo!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 568
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 09:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Maith go leor mar sin a Sheosaimh;

an bhfuil an ceart agam maidir le "gona"; gurbh ionann agus "lena" é. Agus má tá, tuige go bhfuil?

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá a Aonghuis, is ionann 'gona' agus 'lena'.

Is é 'co' > 'go' an réamhfhocal agus tá an réamhfhocal sin linn go fóill i nathanna ar nós 'acra go leith', 'go leor' agus 'go bhfios dom'. Is ionann an 'go' sin agus 'móide', is é sin, 'an acre plus a half'. Feicfidh tú roinnt samplaí eile ag Ó Dónaill faoi 'go 2' agus tuilleadh ag an Duinníneach.

Leanadh an tuiseal tabharthach an réamhfhocal 'go' sin; mar sin: 'leath' (t. ainmneach) > 'leith' (t. tabharthach), agus bhíodh urú á leanacht, mar sin, d'fhéictí 'X go lleith' agus urú ar an litir 'l' fiú amháin.
Bíonn an fhuaim 'll' le cloisteáil go fóill agus sampla eile de fhuaim an l-dúbailte is ea an nath an-choitianta sin 'gabh i lleith' mar go leanadh an t. tabharthach an réamhfhocal 'i' chomh maith, mar is eol duit ar Ghaeilge na linne seo féin.
Scríobhtar an nath sin inniu le 'l' amháin, nó mar 'goile' = 'come here'.

T. tabharthach an fhocail 'lear' (= farraige) is ea 'go leor'.
T. áinsíoch/cuspóireach is ea 'lear' sa nath 'thar lear'.
T. ginideach is ea 'Lir', athair mar dhea, Mhanannáin.
Is as an bhfocal céanna sin a fuaireamar 'Lerpwl' na Breatnaise, is é sin, 'Learpholl' na Gaeilge.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 572
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Muise. Is fiú na snáthanna seo a tharraingt...cá bhfios cén ball ar a mbeidh muid ar ball.

Míle maith agat as an t-eolas.

A Chailín, tá riú ag Duinnín mar foirm de "re" - "le" sa Ghaeilge anois.

riú = lei.

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Cailín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 194.165.170.225
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hi, it's me again.
To Seosamh: I understand completely that this is an Irish-speaking organisation. However, I wrote an article in the English-speaking forum, therefore, I don't see any harm with me writing in English. In fact, I'm doing nothing wrong by writing in English.
Thank-you for your help and suggestions but I can't help feeling like I've been told off. It was my choice to write in English. I hope you respect that.
Thank you

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 85
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chailín,

My Irish isn't good enough for me to read between the lines and pick up the nuances of expression that may be there, but as I struggle with Seosamh's post, I wonder if the intent might not have been to encourage you to "take the plunge."

I believe the expression "is mithid" may imply that something is long past due, but even that could be interpreted as "I'm confident that you're competent."

"Muise," as Aonghus says, a few days ago I wandered quite by accident into the Irish Only forum and ran my Bóg Béarla and was promptly upbraided for it. At least you were in the right place.

Go mbeannaí Dia thú.

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.104
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 09:21 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chailín, a chara,

Tagaim le léamh Phádraig ar an méid a bhreac mé thuas. Tá tú óg agus tá tú sa tríú leibhéal, ag déanamh céim le Gaeilge, in ollscoil in Éirinn. Tum thú féin inti anois agus ná fan go mbeir amach in eiraball na céime ollscoile.

B'fhéidir nach bhfuil dea-shampla á thabhairt ag an lucht teagaisc duit agus aithním gur measa muintir na Sean-, na Meán- agus na Gaeilge Clasaicí ná muintir na Nua-Ghaeilge i dtaca le gnás na Gaeilge, idir a labhairt agus a scríobh. Is gnás le cuid den aicme acadúil luí leis an mBéarla agus iad i mbun a gcuid oibre. Mo náire iad.

Feicim céim Ghaeilge san áit a bhfeiceann roinnt eile céim in ábhair Ghaeilge. Is teanga í a bhfuil litríocht ar iompar aici. Is bean óg thú ach ní gá duit glacadh le leagan amach na glúine atá romhat, an dream acadúil arb é a fhor agus a fhónamh caint agus scríobh i mBéarla ar early Irish Literature agus a leithéid. Is é Seathrún Céitinn a scríobh Foras Feasa ar Éirinn mar is eol duit agus fág Geoffrey acu siúd eile lena leagan de Keating's History of Ireland.

Tá an dá rogha agat a Chailín: a bheith i mbun na Gaeilge mar ábhar san ollscoil nó a bheith i mbun na Gaeilge mar theanga. Irish as a subject a bhí agat sa mheánscoil, measaim. Bíodh an Ghaeilge mar theanga agat san ollscoil agus sa saol mór agus seachain an mbeifeá ar nós go leor eile a shiúlann tríd na céimeanna ollscoile seo. Glac léi mar theanga agus bain céim onóracha céad ghrád amach duit féin. Ná bí leath ann is leath as mar a bhíonn an sciar faiteach sin a déarfas ag an Law Ball: 'Yes, I'm doing Irish Language and Literature nó cibéard'.
- 'Oh, that's nice' a déarfaidh an mac dlí leo.
Abair 'Yes, I'm doing Irish. Both language and literature'.
Má deir mac dlí 'that's nice' leat, bí cinnte a rá 'that's nice' a rá leo féin nuair a déarfaidh siadsan 'I'm doing Legal Science' nó 'Corporate Law and Torts'.
'Oh, that's niccce'!

An gcíorann sibh Foras Feasa ar Éirinn i nGaeilge nó i mBéarla san ollscoil a bhfuilir?

Snámh leis an teanga a Chailín. Is beag duine eile ar an suíomh seo a bhfuil sé de dheis acu an Ghaeilge a dhéanamh mar chuid dá gcuid ollscolaíochta. Snámh, léirigh dóibh anseo nach ábhar amháin agat í agus nach bhfuilir 'Unhappy' a thuilleadh, nach bhfuil scáth ort í a roinnt leo, Meiriceánaigh an tsuímh seo, nuair a fhaigheann tú an deis.
An mbeadh an Céitinneach sásta led' iarracht ar a theanga a chur i bhfeidhm ar shaol na linne seo, nó Máire Bhuí Ní Laoghaire agus eile, an mbeadh sí sásta leat?
Snámh leis AN DREAM AR DÍOBH THÚ agus ná fan ar an talamh tirim a thuilleadh. Tá sí agat. Labhair agus scríobh. Is cuma faoi bhotún. Scríobh í chugainn anseo.

Tá duine nó beirt eile cosúil leat a scríobh isteach anseo as ollscoileanna in Éirinn agus dúras mórán an méid céanna leo ar na mallaibh. Ní ag tromaíocht ort atáim, ach ní hionann tú agus muintir Mheiriceá abraimis. Is iontach an deis atá agat a bheith ag gabháil don Ghaeilge in ollscoil in Éirinn. Tapaigh do dheis.
I dtaca liom féin, is féidir liom cuidiú le clann na hollscolaíochta Gaeilge nuair a fheicim ceist acu orm i nGaeilge. Sin geis nach dtig liom a choilleadh. Guím gach rath ort agus cuideoidh mé leat nuair is féidir.

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Cailín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 149.157.1.122
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 04:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post

To Seosamh: thank you for your post but can I just say a few things:
1) My Irish is very bad due to the fact that I can't go to lectures for personal reasons and so, my Irish is worse now than it ever was.
2) I would love to take up Irish as a language instead of seeing it as just another subject but I'm under a huge amount of pressure at the moment trying to just pass it in the first place because of 1).
Due to the fact that I can't attend any of the lectures and I've an exam the day after tomorrow, I wrote here as a last resort.
I love Irish but I won't be able to learn it and speak it properly until I'm out of university.It's very hard to learn something like Irish in a pressure environment where the emphasis is on just cramming useless stuff into your head and then filling pages with it in an exam.
Irish is a great language but right now, I don't have time to actually learn it because I've to learn so much else.
Thank you for your post and help,
Cailín

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 05:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post

1) My Irish is very bad due to the fact that I can't go to lectures for personal reasons and so, my Irish is worse now than it ever was.
2) I would love to take up Irish as a language .....

Labhróimid ar ball. Deifir anseo.

A Chailín, a chara,

You might lay your hands on a copy of Bergin's Sgéalaigheacht Chéitinn. Gheobhaidh tú freagraí go leor ansin.

-cuiris = chuir sé / sí = he / she put
-riú = leo = with them
-mnaoi = bean = woman; ar/ag/do/de/le/i/ .... mhnaoi
-gona = lena = with his / her / their
-triallaid = triallann sé / sí = he / she goes/journeys
-uaislibh = uaisle = nobles; ar/ag/do/de/le/i/ .... uaislibh


Thank you for your post and help -

Coinnigh an misneach agus freastail ar na léachtaí!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 587
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 06:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Agus tá súil againn uilig go dtiocfaidh leigheas luath ar (1) i dtreo is go mbeidh ar do chumas freastal ar léachtanna!

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Cailín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 194.165.169.243
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 04:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Aonghus,
If I were to thank you for your help, would I say:
1) Go raibh maith agat, a Aonghus
OR
2) Go raibh maith agat, a hAonghus.
Which is it and why?
Ar aon nós, thank you Aonghus!

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 597
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Níl aon urú - a Aonghuis - caolú de bharr an tuiseal gairmeach.



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