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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through December 12, 2004 » Tá cheist agam .Pronunciation « Previous Next »

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Poblachtach
Member
Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 45
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

learning verb declensions I have noticed that on occasions there would seem to be the same pronunciation for two different tenses . As an example I would do = Dhéanfainn and I used to do = Dhéanainn
how would I avoid confusion of the two ? my guess would be to exaggerate the H sound given by the F , even though the f seems to get the silinet treatment in other verb forms ie tiocfaidh seems to be pronunced tyockay and not tyok hay . hope Im making myself clear. would the F as H also be pronounced in dheanfá therefore producing gyen haw or is it pronunced gyean-aw.
I know there is a regional difference thing with some of these pronunciations , Im not following any particular one so if some one could mention those differences that would be helpful.
my thanks

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phoblachtaigh, a chara,

An fhuaim 'h' a rá, ní gá cur leis ar aon bhealach, nó 'exaggerate'. No need to exaggerate. Just speak naturally.

Tarlaíonn díghlórú roimh an bhfuaim /h/ (.i. na litreacha 'f', 'th', 'sh') i bhfocal ar nós 'tagtha', 'tógfaidh', 'séidfidh', 'scuabfainn', 'bogtha', 'lagshocraithe' agus na céadta eile nach iad. ('Bhí mé bogtha' /bokhi:/ a deirtear i gConnachta, 'I was really annoyed.) Because devoicing happens in such environments - caused by the following sound /h/ - you feel that 'h' doesn't have any effect in 'tiocfaidh', and you are right, it doesn't as the 'c' is a not a voiced consonant to start with. The effect caused by 'h' and 'h' itself you now confuse. They are not to be confused. It's being there is not as noticeable where devoicing doesn't occur, but it is occasionally there all the same, depending more on circumstance than on the speaker. Any one speaker may use a /h/ or not use a /h/ in different circumstances.

Bíonn an fhuaim 'h' le cloisteáil ar an litir 'f' sa bhriathar 'dhéanfá'.

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Poblachtach
Member
Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 46
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 08:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A sheosamh , go raibh maith agat for your reply , however I am not advanced enough to make complete sense of what you have said although I think I got the jist of it.
WHile I have your attention and you seem to know your stuff could I ask you another.
From what I can gather the doble negative is deemed correct grammatically in Irish , correct?
As an example , I came across this :
Ní chreidim nach cuimhin leat an cluiche sin.

which in literal english would be 'I dont think that you dont remember that game'
Which is a bit confusing as nach is translated as ' that not'
what sense would , 'Ní chreidim gur cuimhin leat an cluiche sin' make then ? Or am I taking gur and nach to literally ?

again thanks for your time

is mise Gearóid

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 12.75.178.30
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 09:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

i don't believe that you remember that game.

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Seán51
Member
Username: Seán51

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 09:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phoblachtach: I believe you should pronounce as they are. You will understand the meaning by the context of the sentence and the discussion at the time.

Seán

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 06:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ní cuimhin leat an cluiche sin. You don't r....

'Ní chreidim nach cuimhin leat an cluiche sin'
I don't believe that you don't remember that game.


Is cuimhin leat an cluiche sin. You remember ...

'Ní chreidim gur cuimhin leat an cluiche sin'
I don't believe that you remember that game.
------------------------------------------


Is cuimhin leat an cluiche sin. You r....

'Creidim gur cuimhin leat an cluiche sin'
I believe that you remember that game.


Is cuimhin leat an cluiche sin. You remember ...

'Creidim gur cuimhin leat an cluiche sin'
I believe that you remember that game.

------------------------------------------------

Ba chuimhin leat an cluiche sin. You remembered/ would remember....

'Creidim gur chuimhin leat an cluiche sin'
I believe that you did/would remember that game.

Níor chuimhin leat an cluiche sin. You didn't remember/ wouldn't remember....

'Creidim nár chuimhin leat an cluiche sin'
I believe that you didn't/wouldn't remember that game.

-----------------------------------------------

IS briathar í an chopail a dhéanann abairt Ghaeilge an-bhreá scaití. The copula 'is' is a verb well worth taking a good look at, a Phoblachtaigh, as it somtimes makes the nicest of Irish sentences.

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 318
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 09:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ní dhéanann madra.
Ní dhéanfainn madra.
Ní dhéanainn madra.

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Poblachtach
Member
Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 47
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks to all for you help , it makes sense now , but jeez thats the thing with Irish , every answer causes another ten questions , but I`ll desist for now :)

go raibh an-maith agaibh



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