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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through December 12, 2004 » Capaill de shaghas eile.... « Previous Next »

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 513
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Horses of another colo(u)r

Some of you may be interested in this learning aid I found while googling capaill

http://www.lang.ltsn.ac.uk/materialsbank/mb049/

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 152.163.100.136
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Wicked! I've added it to my favorites and I thank you greatly for it, sir!
-Maidhc.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 515
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is de thaisme a fuaireas é. Gabh buíochas leis na hUltaigh díograiseacha a chuir ar fáil é!

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 63
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ditto to Mike Ó.G.'s comment about the Capaill site. These are the kinds of exercises I alluded to the other day. For the proficient they may bring a new meaning to the word, inanity, but to me they're like nursery rhymes to a three year old.

Now: what is the origin of the expression "mac léinn?" I can't find it in my dictionary.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 519
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

mac léinn - a son of learning (léann)

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 68
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Schreeeeech!

No wonder I couldn't find it. How come the genitive of léann isn't linn? No wait; don't tell me. That would make it a prepositional pronoun with le. Or a glass of beer?

More schreeches!

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 205.188.116.136
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Nope. Genetive 1st declention.
Lesson 10.4 from the above site :)
éi changes to i
éa changes to éi
-Maidhc.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 168.12.253.66
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Mhaidhc,

Have you worked your way all the way down to 10.4 already. Sounds like you you're way out in front of those of us who need the site. Maith thú!

Pádraig

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.145.206
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

'ea' also changes to 'i'

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 70
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I thought so. That's what led me to ask about linn. I'm not sure, but isn't the genitive of leann (no fada) linn? The easy confusion between léann and leann was the source of the shreek.

Also, doesn't peann change to pinn?

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.145.206
Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 04:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post

yes. As far as I know é always stays.
Maidhc, are you sure 'éi' changes to 'i'? I thought it stayed the same,
an phéint, dath na péinte? In fact I think most words with éi are probably feminine and so would change as péint does.
I can't think of a masculine one off the top of my head.

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 64.12.116.135
Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Péint isn't first declension. The changes here occur in the first declension.
Péint is second declension and as such is feminine. These become genetive by slenderizing, if necessary, and adding 'e' to the end.
Lesson 11.4

-Maidhc.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 313
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 06:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post

an peann
na pinn
dath an phinn
dath na bpeann

an phéint
na péinteanna
dath na péinte
dathanna na bpéinteanna

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.144.171
Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Yeah, you still haven't given me an example of 'éi' changing to 'i'. I would appreciate it as I have been trying to think of one.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 533
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Maidhc didn't in fact say that éi changes to i, which may be why you can't find an example.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.148.171
Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Yes he did,look above, he siad 'éi'changes to 'i' and 'éa' changes 'éi'

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 74
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Okay, it's a typo. Mike was quoting from a lesson in the Capaill site, and he must have copied it wrong. It says:

ea charges to i
éa changes to éi

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 538
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Sorry, I missed the typo because I actually went to the source Maidhc quoted.

Back to the original
léann [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
oideachas, scoláireacht; eolas de thoradh léitheoireachta.


Foirmeacha
léann - ainmfhocal léann [ainmneach uatha]
léinn [ginideach uatha]


leann [ainmfhocal firinscneach den tríú díochlaonadh]
beoir; leacht (leann bó).


leann dubh (pórtar).
Foirmeacha
leann - ainmfhocal leann [ainmneach uatha]
leanna [ginideach uatha]
leannta [ainmneach iolra]
leannta [ginideach iolra]



linn [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
poll uisce, lochán beag; loch, farraige.
linn [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
am, tréimhse (cúrsaí na linne, idir an dá linn).


le linn (i rith, i gcaitheamh (le linn na hoíche, m'óige)).
Foirmeacha
linn - ainmfhocal linn [ainmneach uatha]
linne [ginideach uatha]

Is foirm de le atá i linn.



Bhí an mac léinn tugtha don leann, agus thit sé sa linn le linn dó bheith ag siúl abhaile linn!

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 315
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 07:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Bhí an mac léinn(1) tugtha don leann(2), agus thit sé sa linn(3) le linn(4) dó bheith ag siúl abhaile linn(5)!

1) léinn : Genetive of "léann", which means "learning".

2) leann : "beer"

3) linn : "pool"

4) le linn : a preposition, "during"

5) linn : prepostional pronoun = "le + sinn" = with us

The student was jaded by drink, and he fell into the pool as he was walking home with us.


A Aonghuis, nach ndéarfá "isteach sa linn" in ionad "sa linn"?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 539
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 09:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ní déarfainn. Tig leat san a rá, ach ní gá.

(Message edited by aonghus on December 07, 2004)

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 152.163.100.135
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Oops. Sorry 'bout that. Yes, that should be
ea > i
éa > éi in the first declention.

-Maidhc.

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 75
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 09:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go back to sleep, a Mhaidc. Can't you see Aonghus and Fear na mbróg are trying to fish some beer sotted drunk out of the pool? Just goes to show how much can happen between posts.

Now, what's the verdict? Sa linn nó isteach sa linn?

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 205.188.116.136
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 10:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

SO that's how I got all wet! LOL.
I uderstand what Aonghus said as, because of the context, 'isteach' is understood and doesn't necessarily be needed.

-Maidhc.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 543
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 04:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Muise, tá mic léinn léannta againn anseo. Leanaimís ar aghaidh leis an líon seo líon- theachtaireachtaí; seachnaíonn sé an lionn dubh a thagann ar dhaoine le linn an gheimhridh. Le linn dúinn seo a phlé, n'fheadar an mbeidh daoine fós ag lorg an líon is mó slíte lena ngrá a chuir in iúl dá leannáin? Mo léan, is líonmhar atá na linn doimhne sa teanga ársa seo do mic (agus iníonacha) léinn mí airdeallacha.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 77
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Imagine all those already reluctant kids in school required to study Irish being given that paragraph to translate.

Surely there would be schreeching and wailing and washing of teeth.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 551
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Níl ann ach píosa spraoi.

And, of course, an illustration of the dangers of word for word translation.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 556
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 06:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Since 24 hours have passed:

Heavens, we have learned students here. Let us continue with this mass of web-messages; it avoids the depression which overcomes people during winter. While we are discussing this, I wonder whether people will still be looking for the largest number of ways to express their love to their lovers? Oh dear, there are many deep pools in this ancient language of ours for inattentive students.

Lacks the alliteration of the original, doesn't it!

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 79
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I had planned to have a go at translating that, but I would have required a dictionary, a grammar, a bottle of aspirin, a bottle of Bushmills, and several hours of free time. Thanks for the translation. Now I can work backwards to learn where it all came from.

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Natalie
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Username: Natalie

Post Number: 99
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 04:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Wow, I'm very glad that you translated that too because I got bored the other day and tried doing it myself. Though I don't remember the outcome of my sad attempt, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that! Oh well, better luck next time, hopefully. You learn from your mistakes!

Natalie

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 565
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 05:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Remember that I translated the sense, not the words. You may not have been far off, if you consider that I will have used equivalent english idioms for the irish idioms I used in the original.

I was just playing about to see how far I could twist a passage with "léann", "leann" and "linn" or related words.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 319
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

As with English:

He fell in the pool.
He fell into the pool.

you can say:

Thit sé sa linn.
Thit sé isteach sa linn.


Perhaps think of the former as an abbreviation of the latter... ?



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